RoboSavvy Forum

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-10-13T17:44:39+01:00

I think I really agree with you Humanoido. our bipeds can be used a just expensive toys, and as tempusmaster says: the purpose of play is learning.

One thing is for sure, if home biped robots do ever catch on (ie can be made safe enough to be useful in the home as Bren has said), it is only cost that will often preclude them from being used as toys.

But what fascinates me the most about bipeds, is their almost limitless creative (hardware and software mod'ing) potential.

Chris

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:44 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-27T06:28:17+01:00

NovaOne, you make a good point about "childs play."
I completed writing a program so the Penguin biped
can play soccer using a remote, and run through its
motions using a template just like the bigger
humanoid Robonova. Using the remote IS childs' play.

humanoido

Statistics: Posted by Humanoido — Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:28 am

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-27T06:23:29+01:00

They serve their purpose, can help a lot of people get into
robotics on relatively modest budgets, can be easily
programmed and expanded, are an educational learning tool,
and have a wonderful support base.

Did I say they would take over the world?
(not yet)

humanoido

Statistics: Posted by Humanoido — Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:23 am

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-25T20:21:25+01:00

If you define a toy, as a "child's plaything", then ease of use defines which Robots are toys. I realize that currently operating your penguins may not be "child's play", but there seems good no reason why it shouldn't be. It just requires more user friendly software.

Maybe robotic teddy bears are the future of small bipeds?

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:21 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-25T11:51:36+01:00

NovaOne, no I'm not offended, and in fact appreciate your comments.
However, I have an ongoing question which I'll post with a new subject, about exactly which robots are toys and which are not toys.

humanoido

Statistics: Posted by Humanoido — Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:51 am

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-24T19:48:48+01:00

You may be right, the future of bipeds.... toy penguins?

Humanoido, please don't be offended, but lets hope they're not!

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:48 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-10-16T04:48:42+01:00

There's certainly a revival going on with 2 servo bipeds - like the amazing two servo biped that rock dances like there's no tomorrow! So far, new programs for this tiny bot have soared in the past couple months. (open source and free) It looks like its a lot of fun to program and cute is off the scale!

It dances, it even roller skates. The latest is a soccer playing program, and a program for wireless.

humanoido

PENGUIN SOCCER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Duxpxu4Bhs

PENGUIN HAPPY DANCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9owSIXhh_Mo

PENGUIN DOES THE ROBOT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpH3ZsNwBn8

PENGUIN ROLLER SKATE DANCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_H3teQdxxw

PENGUIN PRODUCT PAGE
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27313

PENGUIN DOCUMENTATION
http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/prod/robo/27313-6%20PenguinDoc-v1.0.pdf

PRS PENGUIN ROBOT SOCIETY
penguin dot robot at yahoo dot com

PENGUIN CODE
http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=10
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27313

Statistics: Posted by Humanoido — Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:06 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-18T20:49:30+01:00

I would like to think that the future of biped robots is open source, but then I remembered years ago (2002) coming across, the open pino platform :
http://www.symbio.jst.go.jp/PINO/
I am probably wrong, but it seems to have (inspired) given birth to smaller robots like bioloids, robonovas, khrs etc, then just gone stagnant and died?

The last dieing breaths seemed to be the morph 3 then, the ZMP nuvo....? Last time i looked nuvo cost £4000, Surely no one bought it?

Were these all dead branches in the biped development tree?

How much of PINO is in the robots being developed by "Savvy Roboteer's"

Chris

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:49 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-17T23:27:55+01:00

JonHylands wrote:
My whole AI engine I am working on is based on sequences and sequence matching. The pattern matching is done based on sequences remembered, so from that perspective it is more like a table lookup.

- Jon

my thoughts exactly

Statistics: Posted by limor — Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:27 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-17T22:33:34+01:00

My whole AI engine I am working on is based on sequences and sequence matching. The pattern matching is done based on sequences remembered, so from that perspective it is more like a table lookup.

- Jon

Statistics: Posted by JonHylands — Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:33 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-17T22:17:12+01:00

When you say pattern matching, will you do this with an equation, or a lookup table?

Chris

(If I've lost the plot, please try to dumb it down for me )

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:17 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-17T22:09:20+01:00

Yes.

I'm planning on doing a form of pattern matching with (filtered) IMU values and what it expects to see while maintaining balance at each point in the walking sequence. The force feedback from the foot sensors will be applied in the same way.

- Jon

Statistics: Posted by JonHylands — Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:09 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-17T22:05:35+01:00

Do you intend to combine the values from your IMU with the force data from the feet, to give your robot its overall sense of balance?

If so, whats your plan of attack

Chris

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:05 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-17T21:47:42+01:00

I've looked at using a kalman filter, but haven't gotten to that point yet.

You shouldn't have any trouble getting values fast enough using my IMU - I update the values from the sensors at 100 Hz, and you can retrieve the values that fast from the IMU if you want. Given that the processing is happening on a PC, you've got enormous amounts of processing power available to use this sensor information.

- Jon

Statistics: Posted by JonHylands — Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:47 pm

Predictions and Problems please....

2007-09-17T20:55:20+01:00

BillB:

What would help is a standard notaion/language that describes the target position of he limbs and lets the robot do the rest. If a new servo or mass is added then it should not effect the target positions of the limbs, and the robot software can calculate how the servos should be positioned.

I like the sound of a standard movement/limb position language! I imagine the standard movement protocol would have several layers?

I agree adding extra DOF is a real headache at the moment. Wouldn't a physics engine be needed for the software to automatically adjust/re-map how the servos should be positioned?
I suppose currently this would need integrating into the development environment? But could it be done one board when required, (ie if a limb goes faulty)? If enough processing power became available?

JonHylands:

What bipeds really need is a concept of balance, and a mechanism that allows the robot to always try and stay in balance, and to be able to do that while moving around.

Do I need to ask, Jon, are you working with a Kalman-filters, to combine the gyroscope and accelerometer values?
If so are you able to obtain useful output values from the filter that can be processed fast enough to be useful during the walking phase?

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:55 pm