RoboSavvy Forum

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-13T17:57:55+01:00

Hi Joe,

Yes, most important mode 3 disables any local dialog from ESD200 which might confuse the RBC.

For the header I used this type:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=115

and just cut a 3 pin and a 4 pin section.

The reset must have pullup on board.

I used an FTDI TTL serial cable and a small board with a reset button for the initial setting. I also use the TTL cable with the Wck programming software to set the servos without using the RBC.

Statistics: Posted by i-Bot — Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:57 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-13T16:56:12+01:00

i-Bot wrote:
Maybe there are some differences between the devices mode settings.

The ESD200 defaults to mode 0 where the AT commands work. Setting to mode 3 disables the AT commands. Mode 0 can be recovered using the reset pin.

Hmm... OK, I think I see. You aren't talking about Bluetooth security modes, but rather the Parani-ESD "operation mode" which determines whether and how the ESD attempts to connect to other BT devices. You like mode 3 because in that mode, it awaits connection from other devices and is discoverable. Makes sense to me.

So I can stick this thing on a breadboard, connect it to my laptop via a serial/TTL level converter, and set it to mode 3 before installing it into the RBC. Or, I can install it into the RBC, and then download (via the serial cable) a little C program that sets it to mode 3 using the AT commands. Is that it?

One final question about the 3-pin header that comes with the RBX-BLTOOTHCOM. I don't have that and will have to fake it with a standard header. Is the RESET pin really just left floating? Seems like it should be tied to +V, otherwise random electrical noise could reset the bluetooth board. Unless it has an internal pull-up, I guess (but the manual doesn't say whether it does). Can you confirm that it really does work to simply snip that pin off the header?

Thanks,
- Joe

Statistics: Posted by Joe — Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:56 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-13T16:26:36+01:00

Maybe there are some differences between the devices mode settings.

The ESD200 defaults to mode 0 where the AT commands work. Setting to mode 3 disables the AT commands. Mode 0 can be recovered using the reset pin.

Statistics: Posted by i-Bot — Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:26 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-13T16:12:01+01:00

i-Bot wrote:
I used the ESD200 because it was the only one of the FB155BC or ACODE-300A devices I could find in the UK. Maybe there are lower cost FB155BC alternatives in US.

Perhaps, but $50 is quite good.

i-Bot wrote:
The missing pin is the reset pin. If this pin is not removed, then the reset button will do a complete reset to the bluetooth and clear the mode 3 configuration setting.
...
I used a serial to ttl converter to set the mode 3, though you could write a small program in the RBC to do this.

Is it important to operate in mode 3? According to acod300a.pdf, the default connection mode is 4, which provides reasonable security. Any reason why I shouldn't just stick with that?

Thanks,
- Joe

Statistics: Posted by Joe — Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:12 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-13T15:47:42+01:00

Most of the bluetooth modules with an AT command set on the serial interface seems to be limited to 115K. Given the other factors in the connection (Bluetooth wireless, USB, host latency), you would have to do some clever software protoclols to maintain 115K between RBC and host given the latencies. The actual data rate limit of V1.2 is about 700K I think, and V2 is 3M.

The other main advantage of version 2 is that is can support multiple connections, but this is not needed in this case.

I have now moved away from AT command set devices to serial or USB HCI interface. This is much much more complex to program, but has the advantage of 3Mbps interface speed and support of any bluetooth protocol including Bluetooth HID. Bluetooth HID means I can use a Wiimote and nunchuk direct to the robot without a PC as proxy. This is very complex to perform the HCI, L2CAP and Wiimote HID protocols together, so I advise to use the AT command set modules until I can better develop a packaged HCI alternative.

Statistics: Posted by i-Bot — Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:47 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-13T13:53:59+01:00

Hi iBot

I was looking at the FB155BC spec sheet and it looks like it's a bluetooth v1.2 device.
I'm not completely familiar with bluetooth but this menas it is only capable of doing up to 115 000 bps right?

For faster speeds you would need a v.2 module right? Do you know of any module that would be pin compatible with the robobuilder board?
Would there be any incompatibility.
I know the native RBC firmware works at a fixed 115 000 but I suppose that if we write a custom firmware we will be able to use it at much higher speeds, correct?

Thx
Pedro.

Statistics: Posted by PedroR — Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:53 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-13T12:26:34+01:00

I used the ESD200 because it was the only one of the FB155BC or ACODE-300A devices I could find in the UK. Maybe there are lower cost FB155BC alternatives in US.

The missing pin is the reset pin. If this pin is not removed, then the reset button will do a complete reset to the bluetooth and clear the mode 3 configuration setting.

http://robosavvy.com/Builders/i-Bot/RBC.pdf

The device conforms to the standard AT command set and provides a biderectional async serial interface. Other bluetooth modes such as HID are not possible on this device, but this is the price of the simple AT serial interface.

I used a serial to ttl converter to set the mode 3, though you could write a small program in the RBC to do this.

The bluetooth and the serial cable seem to co-exist fine, so long a only one is connected.

The serial interface carries the RBC serial protocol which may have the remote buttons encoded into it, or you can transfer any arbitrary serial data.

Let me know if you have any problems, and I will check with mine. It has been working fine for 6 months without my thinking about it, so I have forgotten the detail of how I did it.[url][/url]

Statistics: Posted by i-Bot — Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:26 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-12T23:55:39+01:00

Joe wrote:
OK, I hadn't heard of the ESD200 before. Looks neat, though I can't seem to find anyplace to buy it in the U.S.

Update: my google-fu was weak, but now it is strong. It looks like this can be bought in the U.S. from Lemos, Neteon, and a number of other places (just google "ESD200 bluetooth module").

It looks to me like this is going to require a lot less hacking than the BlueSmirf. Well worth the 50 bucks to have it all nice and neat inside the controller. Would you guys agree?

Thanks,
— Joe

Statistics: Posted by Joe — Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:55 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-12T23:49:13+01:00

i-Bot wrote:
It is not really clear what you want.

Sorry — I want a Bluetooth serial connection between the ATmega128 in the RoboBuilder controller, and whatever Bluetooth host is on the other end (such as my MacBook for example), so I can exchange arbitrary data in both directions.

So I just want to be sure that this connection you're describing actually appears as a serial port to the controller chip, rather than (for example) a series of pin inputs corresponding somehow to buttons on the IR remote.

i-Bot wrote:
When we use the ESD200 it replaces the cable link from RBC to PC. This allows anything done over cable to be done over Bluetooth.

As Pedro has shown, this may be to replace the remote, but also any other downloads or servo controls may be done.

Thanks, that sounds perfect.

i-Bot wrote:
We used the ESD200 because it plugs straight in and works fine with a PC Bluetooth adapter. I guess the BlueSmirf is also OK, just four wires to connect and the board to fit somewhere.

OK, I hadn't heard of the ESD200 before. Looks neat, though I can't seem to find anyplace to buy it in the U.S.

So I've downloaded the RoboBuilder BLTOOTHCOM guide and the FB155BC manual, and I'm starting to piece it together. It sounds like the official RoboBuilder RBX-BLTOOTHCOM is actually a RB155BC; and the ESD200 is pin-compatible with that. Is that right?

But those are 8-pin units, and the RBX-BLTOOTHCOM guide only connects 7 of them. Which pin is left unconnected? Looks like pin 5 (CTS), if I'm reading things correctly. Is that not needed?

Man, if the ESD200 really is a drop-in replacement for RBX-BLTOOTHCOM, somebody should document it clearly and start selling it as such. It's about $50 instead of $200; should sell like hotcakes!

Best,
- Joe

Statistics: Posted by Joe — Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:49 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-12T23:15:43+01:00

Hi Joe,
It is not really clear what you want.

When we use the ESD200 it replaces the cable link from RBC to PC. This allows anything done over cable to be done over Bluetooth.

As Pedro has shown, this may be to replace the remote, but also any other downloads or servo controls may be done.

The Bluetooth is slightly slower than cable, but is acceptable.

We used the ESD200 because it plugs straight in and works fine with a PC Bluetooth adapter. I guess the BlueSmirf is also OK, just four wires to connect and the board to fit somewhere.

If you program the RBC in C, you have direct access to the ESD200 or BlueSmirf.

The Robobuilder PS2 control is sort of ugly, so I use a PS2 controller in the head which emulates the IR control.

Statistics: Posted by i-Bot — Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:15 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2009-02-12T22:32:49+01:00

limor wrote:
We will try to get the Sparkfun Bluesmirf attached and post the hack procedure.

How's that going? I am gearing up to attempt that same hack myself, but I'd sure love to learn from somebody who's done it already.

Thanks,
- Joe

Statistics: Posted by Joe — Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:32 pm

direct access to bluetooth serial from ATmega128?

2009-02-12T22:27:29+01:00

This is great stuff — but ultimately I don't want to just execute canned motion sequences from joystick buttons; instead, I want to download custom software to the MCU, and give that code inputs from my joystick buttons.

Do you know if this Bluetooth setup would allow that? (I would imagine so, but I'm really in over my head here, so I don't want to take anything for granted.)

Thanks,
- Joe

Statistics: Posted by Joe — Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:27 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2008-07-07T17:35:49+01:00

Even the RBC update seems to work over the bluetooth, though significantly slower.

If you plan to use the ESD200, then follow the Robobuilder instructions to add their BT module. Especially note the use of one 4 pin and one 3 pin header.

The 3 pin header stops the reset button making a factory reset to the ESD200 on pin 4

Statistics: Posted by i-Bot — Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:35 pm

Bluetooth and add ons

2008-07-05T08:50:13+01:00

I have installed the ESD200 bluetooth module in the RBC and configured it to be in mode 3. I can connect and it appears motion builder is working the same over BT as over the cable

Me too, it was just as easy as that!

Scenes sent from Motion builder judder a little, am i doing anything wrong?

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:50 am

Bluetooth and add ons

2008-07-04T11:28:09+01:00

i-Bot wrote:
My Robobuilder arrived today.

I have installed the ESD200 bluetooth module in the RBC and configured it to be in mode 3. I can connect and it appears motion builder is working the same over BT as over the cable. I have a usb bluetooth in the PC.

Looks promising !

Thats great news!

We will try to get the Sparkfun Bluesmirf attached and post the hack procedure.

Statistics: Posted by limor — Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:28 am