RoboSavvy Forum

Losing interest and fast

2008-03-17T08:38:39+01:00

It is not so much about the motions as it is about modifying the robot and learning new stuff while doing it.

Exactly!!! While its most obvious with kits like Bioloid and the "Stars" that home build bipeds from scratch, most people interested in hobby robotics have built their own wheeled robots in the past, in order to provide a platform for all manner of sensors and end effectors. Having a humanoid robot platform is the next "evolutionary" step.

Many people I come across are initially fascinated by the RN, and what to see everything it can do, then they start to see its limitations (compared to wheels)....Its is at this point people are either hooked for life, or walk away bored and tell me I'm sad for "playing with toys at my age".

So I believe it's the limitations of the robot, the bits that say "you can fix me" if you just add a few force sensors here and a IMU there, which allow us to apply a broad range of interesting and skills to make our robots better than before.

People that just walk away saying, "sad" have either no imagination, or are just defeatists, probably because they do not have the time or skills even attempt the modifications required.

It is the high skills set requirement which makes these robots ideal learning tool for both hobbyists and universities.

However it may take a while to improve humanoid robots to the level where its is perceived by the majority as a useful activity..........this makes me

Statistics: Posted by NovaOne — Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:38 am

Losing interest and fast

2008-03-17T02:21:48+01:00

The people in this forum who have been enjoying their RN1 for a couple of years now are ones that have made it their hobby to spend much of their time hacking away and modifying the robot.

It is not so much about the motions as it is about modifying the robot and learning new stuff while doing it.

If you haven't already, check out the RN1 wiki to see links to some of these mods.

Statistics: Posted by limor — Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:21 am

Losing interest and fast

2008-03-17T11:08:08+01:00

Gerry............."I think I know everything............" Well..its a joke....Get It. As far as what I think, It was not worth $1000 bucks. That is my opinion. But if you are going to question it......show me a video of a Robonova doing something impressive besides a limited few moves it comes with. So far everybody has said it is what you do with it. Ok......what have people done with it? Show me something. I have seen most videos out there. I have done a lot with mine but found the stability just isnt there. I watched a handfull of videos before I bought it and it grabbed my attention. Hey this is a programmable robot. I could do something with that. The limits will be my imagination. My imagination are there but the stability is not. I guess that is what I was trying to say. I didnt just buy it and find it was too complex or anything. I have spent my life looking out for quality products that interest me. This one has quality but not enough for what I paid. If you can run a program 10 times and out of that it fails even once after doing it properly there is something loose in the design. I dont expect absolute but within a range. It is a cool Robot, dont get me wrong. Just not what I expected for the money, hell, there isnt a fix for Vista. Why not? They both have been out plenty long enough. It cant be that hard. Guys on this forum have done more with Vista to help. This Robot needs to be more refined for that price. The sway in it is just unacceptable. Everybody that keeps telling me it is what you do with it....show me something . Just putting in my opinion so for anybody interested to buy one will have just another opinion when they hit this sight for information. I appreciate when I find opinions that are varied when I am learning or shopping. I certainly am not trying to stop people from buying these...not in the least. It is quality but I am letting them know as much as possible to make a $1000 dollar dive. I dont look at the Robonova here on my desk as an absolute dissapointment or anything near that but the attention it will get from me will be limited now. As for everybody that has helped ...thanks a bunch and I hope I helped at least a little to a poster or two.

Statistics: Posted by NVR2FST — Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:33 am

Losing interest and fast

2008-03-15T17:38:21+01:00

You could take RN to the next level. This humanoid is fantastic for motion control - essentially it's a master of movements. What is the next step? It could be a phase where you add some very important sensors, such as vision, gyro balance, hearing, speech, and touch. Once there, take it to the next level, by introducing some Artificial Intelligence and autonomous thinking and various behavior.

One thing I'd like to see, with a better battery, is the ability to self charge. I want my RN to announce it's going to sleep for 6 hours, plug in for a recharge, lay down, power down, and wake up 6 hours later fully recharged!

humanoido

Statistics: Posted by Humanoido — Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:38 pm

Losing interest and fast

2008-03-14T01:14:19+01:00

5 Years ago I build my first model airplane, a Robbe Charter (for insiders). When it was almost finished I joined a model en electronics club. Buying and building the airplane before joining a club, was my first mistake. It only turned out well because the salesman of the shop gave me some good advice on which plane and other stuff is best to buy for a newbie. So if you’re not familiar with a new hobby you can follow the salesman’s recommendations or advertisement by the manufacturer. As we all know the average salesman and advertisings are there to sell you (more) stuff. Only a good salesman tries to make you happy. At the end only happy customers come back for more.

By falling down and standing up again, I discovered there’s only one important thing: what do I expect from stuff I’m willing to pay for. At first look advertisements and salesmen knows exactly what I like to pay for. Boy how can they possibly know?

Much later I knew what I was really looking for in that model airplane shop. Loopings, slow rolls and torque rolls I wanted. But the plane wasn’t capable of doing those maneuvers. At first I was disappointed, the damn plane just wasn’t capable. But in fact I wasn’t capable. An experienced RC pilot (over)powered his old Robbe Charter with a 10cc motor. He performed some outstanding maneuvers with just a trainer plane only controlled by rudder and elevator surfaces. So a 10cc is what I needed and mounted, but the plane still performed as lousy as it ever did.

Now I instruct newbie’s in model airplane building and flying. Spent a lot of time, money and sanding on a number of high powered aerobatic planes. Having high tech stuff and operating it well looks great to newbies. It can bring great fun to you, for a short moment. It also helped gaining my building and flying skills. But most important thing I’ve learned: only practice can help one further. Popularity, quality, looks and performance of the equipment you use, only makes you happy after you can handle it. Now I fly some high end model airplanes, but in between I still fly my ‘good old Charter’ and it still amazes me what it’s really capable off. That I couldn’t know at the time I bought this great trainer plane.

Just as with the airplanes, my ‘craving’ for a programmable robot was also triggered by the child in me. But what do I want, what do I expect? At that time I didn’t have a clue. It’s great when a robot can clean the house, make a cup of coffee or displays you the person who’s about to ring your doorbell. At a closer look all robots offered today can perform like that. For those things a robot is a bit of overkill in fact. How to make the right choice then? Well what do you want? Nobody spent $1000 on a device from which he (or she) can only hope it performs the ‘refined’ way expected.

The first post in this topic suggests that RN-1 is a great device for most of us. Not for the author unfortunately. He (or she) even figured the possibility he’s (or she’s) expecting too much from a $1000 device. He (or she) seems to be well aware of what he (or she) may expect from such a device. I even recognize my own thoughts in his (her) statement: “I figured when I ordered it for $1000 that it should be pretty damn refined”. This statement just suggests the amount of money spent to a product is related to the buyer’s expectation of ‘refined ness’.

For a newbie like me also spending €800, only the manual could be more refined. Out of the box (a kit) RN-1 performs just great. I was amazed to actually see RN-1 doing cartwheels and taking steps back/forward. I’m not a newbie in control techniques, I’m aware how to operate servo’s, it’s pretty basic. I even knew RN-1’s capabilities before I bought it. Trust me, after reading ‘all’ posts on RoboSavvy and seeing all movies on YouTube, I knew what RN-1 is capable off. It looked just like an expensive boy toy. Pressing a key on the remocon, sit back and wait for result would be boring soon. By then I also knew RN-1 is the one I got to have…

Almost everything about RN-1 can be tweaked, almost every thinkable sensor is for sale. RN-1 is even winning gold at robogames.

In my opinion the author’s last statement says it all. He (or she) wrote: “I think I know everything.............at least thats what everybody tells me.”
I guess the author is better off not to think that much. Not to trust advertisements, salesmen and certainly not believe everything everybody says…

Wonder author’s alternative for RN-1 and the level of quality robot programming accomplished so far.

Gerry

Statistics: Posted by Gerry52 — Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:14 am

Losing interest and fast

2008-01-30T15:53:01+01:00

Buy a R/C car and it rolls about on its wheels under your control and after the first two days you want a faster and better one.
Buy an R/C plane and after wrecking it several times and running out of money for that hobby you sell your gear on ebay. or you get good and make alot of mods and become a good pilot, but it is still a plane that flies around in the air and you always need to take it somewhere safe to fly it.

Question. Why did you by a humanoid robot and not one of the many other types of more basic robot?

With a humanoid you must understand that there are a great many problems in just making it move. I think that many people who bought RN thought he would be leaping through the air and juggling shurikens out of the box, or making them coffee in the morning.
Unlike other types of robotics and R/C devices the humanoid requires a caring and dedicated mentor to teach it the ways of movement. You as the mentor are required to look at your own body mechanics and translate your desired actions into something that your RN can do, or not in many cases. It is the exploration of these limitations that is the key factor of the humanoid. How do I get it to do this task if it cannot do this action? I must look at the problem from a new angle.

The Humanoid robot road is littered with new angles and you must be able to look for them or you WILL get bored.

DirtyRoboto.

Statistics: Posted by DirtyRoboto — Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:53 pm

Losing interest and fast

2008-01-30T05:32:17+01:00

Hello,

I think that the best thing about the Robonova is making it better after you get it, but I also wish that it just came with a lot more.

I would have paid more for a tilt sensor and a couple of gyros with the places to install them.

Asbrandsson

Statistics: Posted by asbrandsson — Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:32 am

Losing interest and fast

2008-01-29T20:43:19+01:00

The RN-1 is advertised as an 'Edutainment Robot'. It also has adverts that dare you to 'Assimilate this'.

IMHO those things invite taking the base set and making your own statement with the parts and information provided Like Mr. Bauer and his Frankenbot III.

There appears to me to be a lot of room in this field for a mechanically inclined individual to make some very interesting advances using these parts. All it takes is time, a bit of artistic skill and a penchant for tinkering.(patience)

The only thing I am worried about is programming the damn thing. When I am done with my first real Re-evolved RN I may even ask one of the experianced animators to make it live...

Statistics: Posted by MYKL — Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:43 pm

Losing interest and fast

2008-01-29T10:25:42+01:00

Hi Guys

As engineer says, I think the cool thing with RN-1 is that there *is* room to improve on what you get out of the box (cool as it is) . . .

For example, I *think* (Dirty et al put me right here) that the rocking about when walking etc is due to the velocity profile of the servos - they are designed to get to a certain position quickly and stay there, so they turn at full speed (or whatever speed is set) except for a very quick ramp at the start and finish. This is great for airplane control surfaces whereas a nice walking motion for a robot often has a sinusoidal velocity profile - i.e. smooth start and finish. Simple microcontrollers appear to be enough for some of the smarter control approaches out there too, E.g. this MSc thesis from Berlin looks interesting and uses two PIC microcontrollers.

So I think the "changing the code in the MR 3024 controller" thread is probably one of the most interesting developments here - but the learning curve does get steeper. . . I guess the question is, for those that are already down that road (I-bot, DanAlbert et al) - how is it working out? Any videos of smoother/faster/rough terrain walking you can post?

Cheers
Tim

Statistics: Posted by Tim — Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:25 am

Losing interest and fast

2008-01-29T01:09:17+01:00

HI been a while since I posted, but your post got me to reply.rn-1 is infinitly better after you make it run as you want it to, out of the box or on it's feet, you can run the progerams that come installed, download ones from the users here or the other forums. I wanted RN-! to win thea medal at robogames and I got the gold. RN-1 can be programmed to run smoothly just look at some of dirty's videos, or some of the matches at robotdreams.com. if you give up you will lose the opportunity to learn how to get what you want out of the robot. this robot can do a lot if you have patience and are willing to spend the time. good luck

Statistics: Posted by engineer — Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:09 am

Losing interest and fast

2008-01-28T23:27:48+01:00

Well I jumped into this with much ambition. I added some decent "clean up" mods. So I have been working on programming him. Well I have come to find that this design is just too "weak" for my taste. I prefer something more sturdy and refined. I know I can create some really nice moves but not with this Robot. It is not rigid enough. Too jerky and too much unwanted sway ,etc. I spend a lot of time programming it just too find the sway and balance are unnacceptable (for me) I really hate the software. I figured when I ordered it for $1000 that it should be pretty damn refined. I may just be too anal and expect too much. Dont get me wrong it has been interesting learning what I have but for what I paid for this? No. I now know what to look for when I get back into it with something else. Maybe my own design. I will just watch for quality software and controllers too come out in the future. I am not saying the robonova doesnt have quality, just not refined enough for me. I have watched and watched videos of the Robonova and once I got beyond the basic moves I have not seen one that an owner has released that impressed me. Im not putting it down, I am just giving MY opinion and it isnt doing it for me any more. I will probably pick it up here and there but I am not wasting much more time with it. I will move on to something else. I may be back on here now and then if I get the urge to mess with it on ocassion. I dont know if you are allowed to sell on this forum but if you are I will entertain offers. Thanks too all for your help. Like I said I may pop on here for a question or post something of possible interest if something revives my interest.

Statistics: Posted by NVR2FST — Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:27 pm