RoboSavvy Forum

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-05-11T03:43:06+01:00

Well after 30 days from when I originally received my RN-1 I FINALLY got it back from Hitec. It turns out the board was "seriously misaligned" whatever that means, and apparently it somehow fried a servo while it headed down the pooper.

The good news is that after an initial tense moment (setting zero point one of the arms didn't function properly) everything seems to be okey dokey. At first I had the blinky led problem, but after I gave it a nice full charge and loaded the template program it appears to have gone away. I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway.

Hopefully I'll get into playing with the programming soon. Unforutnately I have a bad habit of getting way too many things going at once and getting spread too thin. Right now I've got an RN and BoeBot to figure out in my hobby room, an ALMOST finished CNC router I'm building in my garage, THREE jeeps in various states of repair, AND a plasma table I just bought that I have to go to NY to pick up. It's going to need some refurbishing and I knew beans about CNC plasma tables, hence the CNC table in my garage. It's a learning tool or "practice run" for the big one I'm picking up (10' x 13'). The big one is going to be for my company, the garage unit is for learning and will be used to build it's own more accurate successor. My goal is to end up with a nice hobby sized benchtop cnc mill and lathe when I'm all done.

Anyhow, busy busy busy but thanks to all you guys that tried to help me out. Turns out it WAS one of those times where a guy was just SOL.

Statistics: Posted by Spook2 — Thu May 11, 2006 3:43 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-13T02:58:50+01:00

Serial meaing 1 2 3 4 in order in which they stack up from ankle to hip. anyway if your sending it in, I'm suppurised they didnt know. The main tech is Toni. I've had many conversation with him, after building mines. the "arteritis cramp", thats what i called it. lol.. This was one of my coversations with him, lol, in which he instructed me to check the serial order. I still ended up with 2 bad servo's thats smoked when i tried to download a program , so I shipped it myself cause they only use ground shipping, your looking at 2 weeks before you get it back, but thats depending on where your shipping from. anyway the tech's are great, and very helpful.

Good luck..

Statistics: Posted by Morbeious — Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:58 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-13T02:10:11+01:00

See if you can get a pre-assembled one in return. Saves you time and you are guaranteed a working robot.

Statistics: Posted by gsferrari — Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:10 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-13T01:58:32+01:00

greening wrote:
Anyhow, off to call HiTec now.

Well I called HiTec USA, explained the situation...and I got an answer!

Unfortunately the answer went something like "Huh, that's odd. Wonder what that could be?"

To their credit though there was no wishy washy what did you do to screw it up kind of talk. The guy on the phone said he'd send UPS to pick it up, or send me a UPS sticker and I could send it myself. I opted for the sticker because then I don't have to worry about missing the UPS guy when he comes. He said they'd get it fixed right away and send it back out, and it won't cost me a nickle, even for shipping.

Other than the disappointment and the extra time I have to wait, you can't beat that deal with a stick.

I don't feel so bad now, because the tech was as totally baffled as I am as to what's going on. I'm hoping when they send it back they include a report on what the problem was.

Statistics: Posted by Spook2 — Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:58 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T19:32:50+01:00

Morbeious wrote:
I'm pretty sure its the orentation of the plugs, I had the same problem after building mines. When using the manaul my leg servos were not plugged in the correct order. So i unplugged them all and just plugged them in serial order, once i did that RN-1 would stand up. all i know is that the manaul was not correct, or maybe i was mis-interperting the badly translated (printed) manual.

Can you clarify what you mean by "serial order"? I'm a little unclear on this. My first thought was that the board order was different from what the manual says because some servo movement does not correspond with the servo that is being commanded to move on the screen. IOW, if in the zero point control screen I click on servo #4, servo #3 on the bot is the one that actually moves. If I click on #7, servo #6 actually moves.

A complete rundown is 0 moves 0, 1 moves 1, 2 moves 2, 3 moves nothing, 4 moves 3, 6 moves nothing, 7 moves 6, 8 moves nothing, 12 moves nothing, 13 moves 12, 14 moves 13, 18 moves nothing, 19 moves nothing, 20 moves 19, 21 moves 20, and 22 moves 21.

There seems to be some strange pattern to the madness but my addled brain just can't seem to pull it together.

Anyhow, off to call HiTec now.

Statistics: Posted by Spook2 — Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:32 pm

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T19:23:04+01:00

yag-freak wrote:
Hello

Has anyone thought about the two versions of controller-boards.
Version a and b are different in the position of some servos, mostly the arms I think.
And perhaps the board is labeled wrong.

But that would not explain the problems with the legs.

Have you also checked the plugs of the servos? Signalcable has to go towards the CPU on the board and the plug has a bit of extra material near the signalcable.

Get the german version of the manual from robonova.de and look on page 31. There are the two versions of the board explained.

Yes, I've checked the signal cable orientation about a hundred times. All the grey signal wires are towards the center of the controller.

The board I have is a 2.5 and at least according to the Ver. 1.0 English manual I have, the hookup is the same as the Ver. 2.3 board

Statistics: Posted by Spook2 — Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:23 pm

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T19:17:57+01:00

bauermech wrote:
I'd surely like to know what Hitec has to say.

Oh wait, here's a thread of possibility... I just noticed - looking at the pics you posted, it looks like your charger is plugged into the wall. Is the other end running to the 3024? You're only using it for charging right? Not operating? I know that can do some bad stuff to the board. ...just a thought.

The charger has never been connected while the RN was on. I remembered reading about the potential dangers of that, so I've been careful in that regard. Charging ONLY!

I'm going to finish answering the latest posts, and then I'm going to give HiTec a call and see what they have to say.

Statistics: Posted by Spook2 — Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:17 pm

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T12:40:07+01:00

The 2.5 controller modules uses the 2.3 connections. Not the 2.3b

Do you have a servo tester by any chance? Can use the test the swing of the servo's.

I had a similar issue setting my robot up and it was as someone else pointed out the pin on the metal servo wasn't inline with the servo horn and I managed to get it at a funny angle.

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:40 pm

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T11:47:49+01:00

I'm pretty sure its the orentation of the plugs, I had the same problem after building mines. When using the manaul my leg servos were not plugged in the correct order. So i unplugged them all and just plugged them in serial order, once i did that RN-1 would stand up. all i know is that the manaul was not correct, or maybe i was mis-interperting the badly translated (printed) manual.

Statistics: Posted by Morbeious — Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:47 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-18T12:16:18+01:00

Hello

Has anyone thought about the two versions of controller-boards.
Version a and b are different in the position of some servos, mostly the arms I think.
And perhaps the board is labeled wrong.

But that would not explain the problems with the legs.

Have you also checked the plugs of the servos? Signalcable has to go towards the CPU on the board and the plug has a bit of extra material near the signalcable.

Get the german version of the manual from robonova.de and look on page 31. There are the two versions of the board explained.

I will try to post the images here, not sure if I can manage it.

Version a:

Version b:

Translations:
linkes/linker = left
rechtes/rechter =right
Unterarm = forearm
Oberarm = upper arm
Schulter = shoulder
Hüfte = hip
oberes Knie = upper knee
unteres Knie = lower knee
Schienbein = shin
Fuß = foot

Steffen

Statistics: Posted by yag-freak — Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:51 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T06:14:56+01:00

gsferrari wrote:
This looks like a servo cabling error. It is highly unlikely that there could be such a catastrophic error in the controller hardware. Servo ZERO positions are programmed into a "firmware" type memory. Even if you erase the controller memory - the zeroing information stays. You only clear the NVRAM that contained the program files.

Open up the back and shoot some pictures. Compare your servo connections with these images:

Ok, as far as I can tell I'm hooked up just like yours, although the bottom pinouts are a tad hard to make out. Anyhow, here are some shots of mine.

Hopefully you can make it out. Pinouts 5,9,10,11,15,16,17, and 23 are unused.

I've got an electric screwdriver somewhere, I was concerned about stripping out screws/servo cases. Either way the B&D unit looks a lot better than the one I've got.

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:14 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T06:00:28+01:00

Unfortunately I'm in Ohio, or "I" would drive to see you. I'm going to try calling HiTec tomorrow and see what they say. If they think it's bad I SURE hope they'd be willing to do a swap, and send me an RTW unit! My fingers would not look forward to doing another one any time soon.

Oh, you're the "Canton Guest". I'm fresh out of ideas personally. Unless gsferrari can think of something. It looks like you've covered all the bases.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to put it back together again either.
Hope they can get you up and running soon. I can smell quite possibly the first "Robo-One Ohio" tournament right around the corner.
Well, before you do anything like drive somewhere (have you seen the gas prices?), I'd surely like to know what Hitec has to say.

Oh wait, here's a thread of possibility... I just noticed - looking at the pics you posted, it looks like your charger is plugged into the wall. Is the other end running to the 3024? You're only using it for charging right? Not operating? I know that can do some bad stuff to the board. ...just a thought.

Statistics: Posted by bauermech — Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:00 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T05:18:17+01:00

This looks like a servo cabling error. It is highly unlikely that there could be such a catastrophic error in the controller hardware. Servo ZERO positions are programmed into a "firmware" type memory. Even if you erase the controller memory - the zeroing information stays. You only clear the NVRAM that contained the program files.

Open up the back and shoot some pictures. Compare your servo connections with these images:

http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/1.jpg

http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/2.jpg

http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/3.jpg

http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/4.jpg

If you havent seen this manual before - You can download it here:

http://www.robonova.de/store/down/downl ... Manual.pdf

Guest wrote:
Unfortunately I'm in Ohio, or "I" would drive to see you. I'm going to try calling HiTec tomorrow and see what they say. If they think it's bad I SURE hope they'd be willing to do a swap, and send me an RTW unit! My fingers would not look forward to doing another one any time soon.

Matt is in Ohio as well. You may want to ask him if he can look at your RN-1. Perhaps ship it to him. I dont know if he has time...

Head to the nearest hardware store and get one of these. My hands are still in good shape because of this tool...shame...I would have preferred to install Matt's grippers on my body Claws and all

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGu ... ctID=10952

Statistics: Posted by gsferrari — Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:18 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T05:02:23+01:00

gsferrari wrote:
Guest - why dont you register and log-in before you post any more. Confusing to have so many Guests around Also - where are you from? If you are within 50 miles of me I will be happy to check your RN-1 out in person. The manual is quite misleading in places...which is why I took my time, checked back with robosavvy.com and other websites, compared the paper novel and a pdf in color...The manual shows the left leg while talking about the right lef assembly...

ASININE!! 8O

Go over the whole process again step by step without skipping anything. If you notice anything odd - note it down.

If the "passive" servo articulation test checks out then the next step will be to check the wires again.

If that checks out then we need to start thinking about a warranty or a replacement. I think the place you bought it from will take it back and send you another kit. Could very well be a controller issue if everything else it ok.

Matt - I dont think the horn will go in any other way. There is a small notch that slips over the 1 position on the axle.

I've tried to register, twice now. I know my initial registration is in there somewhere but when I try to log on it says I'm using the incorrect something. I can't figure out if it doesn't like the user name I'm trying to use, or the password. All it says is "Incorrect Login Info!" or something similiar. If I tell the system to resend my password, it asks for my email, I give it, and then it says "password emailed", but I never get anything. I just tried tonight to re-register under a different user name, and it tells me to wait for an email and follow the link. I don't remember if I ever got an email from the first time I tried to register so maybe my initial registration is NOT in there, but I know I tried.

I'm not kidding when I say I've checked, double, triple, quad, etc checked this thing. Short of a total disassembly. I've checked the servo position by sticker number, I've checked the servo connections to the board a gazillion times.

The only possible servo issue I can think of is if I would have the 6 and 9 servos reversed, but I would think wire length would be a dead giveaway.

Unfortunately I'm in Ohio, or "I" would drive to see you. I'm going to try calling HiTec tomorrow and see what they say. If they think it's bad I SURE hope they'd be willing to do a swap, and send me an RTW unit! My fingers would not look forward to doing another one any time soon.

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:02 am

New Nova, totally stumped.

2006-04-12T04:45:50+01:00

bauermech wrote:
Yeah, that sounds odd. can you post a pic of what he looks like turned on in his own little "standard pose". Little fella' has a mind of his own from the sounds of it.

When you replaced the servo horn disks back onto the servos, did you line up hole '1' with the key on the output gear?

When you turn it on, do any of the servos hit any obstacles... like extending to the point they're butt up against a joint or something? The reason I ask is because if they are, I don't need the pics that bad. I don't want you to ruin your bot so soon.

I was under the impression they would only go on one way since the servo and the horn are "keyed".

When turned on nothing seems to hit. Bear in mind, there is nothing in the controller memory. I erased anything that was in there while I was trying to figure out the problem. The "pose" he assumes comes from when I try to set the zero point. After I open the zero point window and click on "read", he assumes this rather funky pose.

Also keep in mind when you are looking at the pose picture, neither hip joint is working, on the left arm neither the elbow or shoulder work, on the right arm the elbow does not work. Both shoulder rotate servos appear to be working, although the corresponding adjustment on the screen does not necessarily move the proper servo.

The initial position I put him in when powered down, the next pose is after clicking the "read" button in the zero point window.

It's kind of hard to tell from the pic, but the left leg is more or less in the correct position. The right leg on the other hand...the knee is kind of screwy and the ankle is cocked off to the side.

My gut feeling is the controller went south for the winter. The thing that makes me think this is I KNOW these servos are installed and connected per the manual, yet some of them don't move, some move when another servo should actually be moving, etc etc. But I would LOVE to be wrong and have someone say...."It's simple you slack jawed knuckle draggin simian", just do this that and the other and all will be well. I'm not holding my breath though.

Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:45 am