RoboSavvy Forum

control

2008-02-11T23:28:51+01:00

Hi AlphA,

I use a standard wireless XBOX360 controller with wireless gaming receiver http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360wirelessgamingreceiver/

My setup works very much as PEV's great BioBlue software. My XBOX Gamepad communicates with the PC via bluetooth, the PC then converts the pressed (& depressed) button combinations into a byte value which is in turn sent to the Bioloid via Bluetooth.

Since the connection between the PC and the Bioloid is 2 way I can send byte back via bluetooth. Upon receipt of a byte from the Bioloid will then start the Gamepad rumble.

Bill

Statistics: Posted by BillB — Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:28 pm

control

2008-01-28T16:43:26+01:00

BillB, that sounds very impressive! Care to share how you are managing to use those wireless controllers with your Bioloid?

Statistics: Posted by AlphA — Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:43 pm

control

2008-01-27T00:31:01+01:00

As Bren posted I can control my Bioloid using a wireless XBOX360 controller. Infact, I can also control it using a PS2 controller or Nintendo WiiMote (& Nunchuck).

I have found that the XBOX & PS2 were quite limiting. There are so, so many moves and combos that the Bioloid can perform that I have found it impossible to have a control configuration that could use all my programmed combos. I was hoping for a Tekken style control system where I could hammer away at a few buttons and it would yield a wonderful kungfu display. But after much tinkering I began to appreciate the stark contrast of Tekken and the Robo One robots. For instance:
1. In Tekken the control system automatically faces the opponent. The current generation of Robo One robots are blind and have absolutely no idea where the opponent is. Consequently I spend more time using the XBOX/PS2 controller to change the direction of the Robot rather than using the combo moves.
2. In Tekken the control system knows how far the robot is from the opponent, and can automatically use the appropriate combo. Once again very difficult to do with the current crop of Robo One robots.
3. In Tekken the control system knows whether the robot has fallen on the ground and will use the appropriate ground moves & combos.

I am trying different means to solve these short comings. I am experimenting with infared beacons and an infra red camera on the opponent to help determine where the opponent is. I am also considering using infra red proximity detectors to solve item 2. And I have had some success with using an accelerometer to determine when the robot has fallen and to automatically switch to ground attacks/moves.

BTW - I have found that the controller "Rumble" is great for warning that the battery is running low.

Statistics: Posted by BillB — Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:31 am

control

2008-01-26T00:28:52+01:00

Hi All

At the UK Robo-one Bill has a very nice interface where he uses a wireless Xbox controller to control his bioloid via his laptop. THis set up works really well there's a small lag but you can hardly notice it.

Bren

Statistics: Posted by Robo1 — Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:28 am

control

2008-01-25T18:22:17+01:00

This is an exciting idea! Acquiring the ability to “drive” the Bioloid around via a familiar game controller would certainly fill the void and truly complete the robot.

Will the Bioloid be able to utilize analog control? EG: moving the arm in relation to the position of the controller’s analog stick? I know the I-Sobot can do this with its stock controller.

Is there a limit to the number of motions one could assign to the Bioloid? I’m sure the overall ceiling would depend on the complexity of the motion and the amount of memory on the CM-5. Assuming the Bioloid has the capacity to hold many motions, is there any general limit to the number of motions the Bioloid can hold? Also, seeing how the CM-5 has so few buttons, is there a limit to the number of motions which can be triggered?

Has anyone made an app that would allow the user to map motions to PC keyboard keys (transferred wirelessly via Zig or BTooth or even while Bioloid is hooked up via serial)? Using something like Joy2Key would then allow users to use any PC compatible controller. This would also open the door to many custom/hacked controllers and keyboard bashing.

Statistics: Posted by AlphA — Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:22 pm

control

2008-01-25T08:54:00+01:00

srobot wrote:
Pev wrote:Let me dig it out over the weekend and get it over to you ok?

Thanks Pev! (Do you want my email?)

I was thinking about your idea of feedback, I wonder if you could use a "rumble pad" (game controller with feedback) and IMU.

You would "drive" the robot around with the game pad which is connected to the computer, the computer would be sending the robot commands with Zig or Blue Tooth, if the Bioloid hits an object or falls, the CM-5 would be reading the IMU and send the computer a string, the computer will tell the game pad to rumble.

This should be able to be done in VB, seeing that the programmer knows what to send to the game pad.

Maybe I will work on this latter..... Way too many ideas...... I just tell myself that there is 2009...... LOL

--Scotty

Scotty,

Excellent Idea and very do-able. The only thing to bear in mind when you are planing this is that you can only send a single double byte number per packet via the Zig interface (if memory servers me right), however you could always send a number of packets each containing one character of your string, maybe make it a fixed length so the reciever knows that it will always get a set number of characters/packets.

Pev

Statistics: Posted by Pev — Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:54 am

control

2008-01-24T19:37:00+01:00

Pev wrote:
Let me dig it out over the weekend and get it over to you ok?

Thanks Pev! (Do you want my email?)

I was thinking about your idea of feedback, I wonder if you could use a "rumble pad" (game controller with feedback) and IMU.

You would "drive" the robot around with the game pad which is connected to the computer, the computer would be sending the robot commands with Zig or Blue Tooth, if the Bioloid hits an object or falls, the CM-5 would be reading the IMU and send the computer a string, the computer will tell the game pad to rumble.

This should be able to be done in VB, seeing that the programmer knows what to send to the game pad.

Maybe I will work on this latter..... Way too many ideas...... I just tell myself that there is 2009...... LOL

--Scotty

Statistics: Posted by srobot — Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:37 pm

control

2008-01-24T18:28:37+01:00

Dewey wrote:
Pev

Doing off CM5 processing on a PC is fine. I think problems may arise if you require short latency across the link. Although you have a 57K serial comm speed and hence quite a reasonable bandwidth the Windows driver for the comm port can introduce unacceptable latency times, presumably due to multitasking priorities within windows. It might be worth timing some round loop transmissions where the CM5 program just send back what it receives.

Dewey

Dewey,

I hear where you are coming from. My first thoughts are to leave the CM5 processing the motion files etc and send sensor data back to the pc for decision processing. Its not going to be the end of the world if the robot stops for a moment while it waits for a reply although I am hoping it won't. I was hoping to be able to get one of Hamids cameras then send the data retrieved from it back to the PC from a BCP program but I have a feeling its not going to work as the Hamid Camera seems to send back a multi-byte packet making the send data piece in BCP rather tricky as there is limited making and arithmetic/manipulation commands.

It more and more looks like I am going to have to bite the bullet and try to get up to speed with C programming for the CM-5. I think this may be a bit of a challenge but hey I am up to give it a go. May buy myself a second CM-5 to play around with C on so I can keep the Bioloid running in the mean time.

Pev

Statistics: Posted by Pev — Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:28 pm

control

2008-01-24T18:31:14+01:00

srobot wrote:
Hi Pev,

I was just testing (aka. playing) around with BioBlue, it's nice!

Can you upload the program (I have both Visual Basic 2005 and 2008)?

--Scotty

Scotty,

Let me dig it out over the weekend and get it over to you ok?

Pev

Statistics: Posted by Pev — Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:21 pm

control

2008-01-24T17:51:36+01:00

Pev

Doing off CM5 processing on a PC is fine. I think problems may arise if you require short latency across the link. Although you have a 57K serial comm speed and hence quite a reasonable bandwidth the Windows driver for the comm port can introduce unacceptable latency times, presumably due to multitasking priorities within windows. It might be worth timing some round loop transmissions where the CM5 program just send back what it receives.

Dewey

Statistics: Posted by Dewey — Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:51 pm

control

2008-01-24T17:42:50+01:00

Pev wrote:
Hi Scotty,

I am not programming the CM-5 in Vb or C I am using BCP at that end. What I have done at the CM-5 end is add the bluetooth interface (Zig wasn't available when I got mine - yep it had was one of the first kits) and then use the BCP program to recieve data from the bluetooth and action using it.

At the other end of the bluetooth link is a Windows or Windows PocketPC app that I have developed in VB. I am using Visual Stuio 2005 and the .Net framework 2.0 so it is certainly adequate for the serial comms and basic processing required. Its not pumping all the data to the CM-5 just control codes that trigger motions. Kind of like a glorified Bluetooth remote at the moment, although I am planning to hook it up with additional feedback and offl oad the processing from the CM-5 to the laptop or IPAQ.

Hope that explains a bit more, feel free to grab the software off my site if you want to take a look at it its in the download section and should work on any bluetooth enabled PC running 2000/XP - I haven't tested it at all on Vista as I have an aversion to Windows OS's less than 3 year old lol

Pev

Hi Pev,

I was just testing (aka. playing) around with BioBlue, it's nice!

Can you upload the program (I have both Visual Basic 2005 and 2008)?

--Scotty

Statistics: Posted by srobot — Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:42 pm

control

2008-01-24T11:27:27+01:00

Hi Scotty,

I am not programming the CM-5 in Vb or C I am using BCP at that end. What I have done at the CM-5 end is add the bluetooth interface (Zig wasn't available when I got mine - yep it had was one of the first kits) and then use the BCP program to recieve data from the bluetooth and action using it.

At the other end of the bluetooth link is a Windows or Windows PocketPC app that I have developed in VB. I am using Visual Stuio 2005 and the .Net framework 2.0 so it is certainly adequate for the serial comms and basic processing required. Its not pumping all the data to the CM-5 just control codes that trigger motions. Kind of like a glorified Bluetooth remote at the moment, although I am planning to hook it up with additional feedback and offl oad the processing from the CM-5 to the laptop or IPAQ.

Hope that explains a bit more, feel free to grab the software off my site if you want to take a look at it its in the download section and should work on any bluetooth enabled PC running 2000/XP - I haven't tested it at all on Vista as I have an aversion to Windows OS's less than 3 year old lol

Pev

Statistics: Posted by Pev — Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:27 am

control

2008-01-23T20:56:22+01:00

Pev wrote:
Dewey,

thanks. That is really useful. I think BioBlue PC (the thingy I wrote for laptops and tanlet PC's under XP) should work straight out of the box as it just uses a COM port. I have only tried it under bluetooth but the code is no different for bluetooth or any other type of serial port.

If USB to COM does not work (and you don't want to rewrite the software) you could use a virtual COM port.

Pev,
How do you program the Bioloid in C or VB? Do you use a USB board like the ones at HUV Robotics? I would think MS VB would talk too slowly for full control?

--Scotty

Statistics: Posted by srobot — Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:56 pm

control

2008-01-22T22:35:22+01:00

might take you up on that

Statistics: Posted by trey3670 — Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:35 pm

control

2008-01-22T21:53:19+01:00

Dewey,

thanks. That is really useful. I think BioBlue PC (the thingy I wrote for laptops and tanlet PC's under XP) should work straight out of the box as it just uses a COM port. I have only tried it under bluetooth but the code is no different for bluetooth or any other type of serial port.

Trey,

If you do decide to go with a bioloid and the ZIG interface the software I wrote is on my website in the downloads section. The address is in my signature. Would be happy to help you get it going if there are any issues. It also comes with the BCP program that is needed for the Bioloid and the motion file too.

Pev

Statistics: Posted by Pev — Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:53 pm