Robo One 11 Rule Changes?

[DerekZahn]

Hi! Does anybody know what the rule changes are for the 11th Robo One? Online translation of the home page shows:

"Introduction of restriction of the sole size with weight" Looking at the pdf of the rules, it appears that a maximum foot size as a percentage of leg length has been introduced. For a 3kg robot the limit is 50%. For a 3.1kg robot, does the rule for the 5kg weight apply?

"Introduction of length restriction of arm" Apparently the maximum extended arm length is now restricted, but I can't tell what the limit is.

"Throwing away body introduction of definition of skill" I assume this refers to a capability that all Robo One entrants must have, is that correct? If so, what does it mean?

Thanks for anybody who can figure this out!

[Robo1]

it was my understanding that the 50% of the leg length for the foot was always there. (it could be for robo soccer). But I would make a guess that the 5KG would be the same ratio.

I would love a copy of the rules in english, are there the same rules for the american robo-games.

bren

[DerekZahn]

The table in the new rules shows that the limit depends on the weight -- as weight increases the maximum foot size decreases. The limit is more than 50% for lighter robots and less than 50% for heavier robots. At least that is my interpretation of the PDF file for the rules, but I can't read Japanese.

RoboGames uses the old Robo One 70%-of-leg-length foot size limits. Given the small number of entries there is no reason to make the rules any stricter on this side of the Pacific!

[slashsplat]

I am so weary of this translation issue. When are the Japanese Vendors/Associations going to understand that we require PROPER translation by HUMANS? This automated POOP is just aggravating. I am sick of trying to INTERPRET automated xlations, especially on Docs that are CLAIMED to be "English."

If the vendors and associations really want the English-speaking Market to accept their offerings, they need to provide reasonable translations. This is not the simple xlation between two Romantic languages like Spanish to English...

Can someone champion this cause? Can we find the right people to appeal to for help?

A few of us have formed the American Manoi Users Group, and this is one key platform of ours...

[srobot]

If some body does make a translation of Robo-One 11 rules and you are fine with me puting them up on my site please tell me.

Thanks,
--srobot

[DerekZahn]

Perhaps the generous fellow who did the translation of the Robo One 10 rules hosted on robots-dreams.com will be willing to update the altered sections.

I have gone through the text, pasting changes into an online translator and I have noticed a few things...

First, it looks like the arm length limit is that the arm must not be longer than the leg (and neither must the head be longer than the leg!)

It looks like the robots must demonstrate an ability to turn around while walking as part of the preliminary qualification procedure (within 10 seconds).

There's something about if a family enters that maybe a child has to operate the robot? I am not at all clear about that section (5) or the circumstances under which it applies.

There is now a 30 kg weight limit (!)

Something I can't quite make out regarding the use of a radio during the demonstration event.

It looks like there is a new rule about attacks that involve falling over. I noticed that some of the robots from the Robo One 10 tournament had a strategy of basically flopping onto the ground in the process of attacking, and doing so as often as possible, which made the fighting look kind of ridiculous. I would guess that this section (comment 15 in rule 5-9-1 which actually looks like a typo and should be 5-10-1) is designed to help avoid such silliness -- but I could be completely misunderstanding this.

I think "jumping rope" is the theme of the demonstration phase for this competition. I'm not sure if that means that the robots have to jump rope or if it is just a suggestion.

[srobot]

Hi,
I asked Duncan if he has a copy of the rules back in December, and he said he did not get to it yet, but he will try to get to it soon. Jump Rope huh, that will be cool, I can't wait to see videos of them on www.robots-dreams.com !!

--srobot

[tempusmaster]

Perhaps the generous fellow who did the translation of the Robo One 10 rules hosted on robots-dreams.com will be willing to update the altered sections.

Duncan, Matt's partner in Bauer Independents was very generous and did a great job on that translation. He's been out of commission due to some health challenges so it isn't clear yet if he'll be updating the translation or not.

I have gone through the text, pasting changes into an online translator and I have noticed a few things...

First, it looks like the arm length limit is that the arm must not be longer than the leg (and neither must the head be longer than the leg!)

Things were getting a little bizarre... They're trying to bring the focus back towards truer humanoid forms.

It looks like the robots must demonstrate an ability to turn around while walking as part of the preliminary qualification procedure (within 10 seconds).

They want to keep raising the bar for the main competitions since the number of entries is growing rapidly.

At the same time they have formed relationships with a number of other similar competitions including Robo-Fight, Wonderful Robot Carnival, and others to pre-qualify competitors for ROBO-ONE. It's kind of like baseball's minor league system.

There's something about if a family enters that maybe a child has to operate the robot? I am not at all clear about that section (5) or the circumstances under which it applies.

This was caused by the elimination of the ROBO-ONE J competitions which emphasized family participation along with slightly smaller robots. The ROBO-ONE J initiatives were rolled into the main rules which resulted in the family provision and part of the weight class changes.

There is now a 30 kg weight limit (!)

Pretty cool isn't it. At the ROBO-ONE 10 banquet last September Nishimura joked about a 100 kg class - but everyone thought he was more than half serious about doing it.

Something I can't quite make out regarding the use of a radio during the demonstration event.

I'll have to go back and take a look at that one.

It looks like there is a new rule about attacks that involve falling over. I noticed that some of the robots from the Robo One 10 tournament had a strategy of basically flopping onto the ground in the process of attacking, and doing so as often as possible, which made the fighting look kind of ridiculous. I would guess that this section (comment 15 in rule 5-9-1 which actually looks like a typo and should be 5-10-1) is designed to help avoid such silliness -- but I could be completely misunderstanding this.

They are trying encourage builders to focus on humanoids rather than strange designs to take advantage of the rules.

I think "jumping rope" is the theme of the demonstration phase for this competition. I'm not sure if that means that the robots have to jump rope or if it is just a suggestion.

Each of the competitions has a primary challenge theme. For ROBO-ONE 10, it was being able to do a rabbit hop. This time around it's jumping rope. It's not mandatory, but the judges will award a lot of points based on it. Anyone that wants to end up in the top 32 to fight in the final bouts will definitely attempt it.

[DerekZahn]

Thanks for the lengthy reply!

They want to keep raising the bar for the main competitions since the number of entries is growing rapidly.

That certainly makes sense.

At the same time they have formed relationships with a number of other similar competitions including Robo-Fight, Wonderful Robot Carnival, and others to pre-qualify competitors for ROBO-ONE. It's kind of like baseball's minor league system.

Interesting. Although my robot won't be in shape to compete in #11, I kind of have a dream of competing in #12. I hope there's some way for far-away entries to qualify.

Pretty cool isn't it. At the ROBO-ONE 10 banquet last September Nishimura joked about a 100 kg class - but everyone thought he was more than half serious about doing it.

Ha! That would be something to see!

Each of the competitions has a primary challenge theme. For ROBO-ONE 10, it was being able to do a rabbit hop. This time around it's jumping rope. It's not mandatory, but the judges will award a lot of points based on it. Anyone that wants to end up in the top 32 to fight in the final bouts will definitely attempt it.

Thanks for the helpful explanations, and for your great web site!

[tempusmaster]

Thanks for the lengthy reply!

You're very welcome. It's my pleasure.

They want to keep raising the bar for the main competitions since the number of entries is growing rapidly.

That certainly makes sense.

They really want to leverage the competitions to advance the state of the art. Besides, there are lots of other competitions, at least over here, where builders can get wild & crazy with their designs. The RoboFight Over Regulation class bouts draw some really interesting bots that would never qualify for ROBO-ONE.

At the same time they have formed relationships with a number of other similar competitions including Robo-Fight, Wonderful Robot Carnival, and others to pre-qualify competitors for ROBO-ONE. It's kind of like baseball's minor league system.

Interesting. Although my robot won't be in shape to compete in #11, I kind of have a dream of competing in #12. I hope there's some way for far-away entries to qualify.

As far as I have heard so far, foreign entries will be able to enter the same way they have in the past. Of course, as the entries continue to expand, sooner or later they will be forced to implement some sort of pre-screening.

The Korean ROBO-ONE organization is very active and ends up with several competitors coming to participate in the Japan events. MYRO (by Myongji Robot) took 3rd place here last September and came incredibly close to winning the whole thing.

You've already got a good start in the US. The RoboGames ROBO-ONE events are loosely based on the competitions here about two years ago, which is probably a good match for the current level of the robots that enter. As more people get involved and the competitive level goes up they can easily raise the bar. It would be great if some other robot clubs/events - like Chibots for example - started to have ROBO-ONE type competitions also.

Pretty cool isn't it. At the ROBO-ONE 10 banquet last September Nishimura joked about a 100 kg class - but everyone thought he was more than half serious about doing it.

Ha! That would be something to see!

8O
We'll probably see some larger bots show up in March. One of the Korean teams brought a huge 3X design over about two years ago that the average ROBO-ONE bot couldn't budge in the ring.

Each of the competitions has a primary challenge theme. For ROBO-ONE 10, it was being able to do a rabbit hop. This time around it's jumping rope. It's not mandatory, but the judges will award a lot of points based on it. Anyone that wants to end up in the top 32 to fight in the final bouts will definitely attempt it.

Thanks for the helpful explanations, and for your great web site!

Thank you.

[Ghostrider]

If the vendors and associations really want the English-speaking Market to accept their offerings, they need to provide reasonable translations. This is not the simple xlation between two Romantic languages like Spanish to English...

"En boca cerrada, no entran moscas." It might be better to first take a close look in the mirror. American manufacturers are much worse.

[slashsplat]

... reasonable translations.

"En boca cerrada, no entran moscas." It might be better to first take a close look in the mirror. American manufacturers are much worse.

I do not know, and would assume you are correct. I could argue that translating FROM English can be one order of magnitude easier than coming from Chinese, Japanese, or other Asian languages, but I will refrain.

And I would STRONGLY encourage Non-English speaking customers of American products to make their case as loudly and strongly as they can, as I am trying to do on behalf of English-speakers using Japanese xlations. We can vote with our pocketbooks. I do not condone sloppy or automated translations from ANY vendor from ANY country.

As a commerical software vendor, we voluntarily PAY professionals for our translations and PAY to have them certified by a bi-lingual technician. We would provide no less. If other American companies are slack, shame on them. The price you pay for the luxury of expanding your market internationally is to accommodate the needs of the target audience.

Or, you could do like the French-Canadians and insist that all products are in perfect French (in my industry)...

[bauermech]

DerekZahn wrote:
Perhaps the generous fellow who did the translation of the Robo One 10 rules hosted on robots-dreams.com will be willing to update the altered sections.

tempusmaster wrote:
Duncan, Matt's partner in Bauer Independents was very generous and did a great job on that translation. He's been out of commission due to some health challenges so it isn't clear yet if he'll be updating the translation or not.

I know Duncan's supposed to be exercising his mind as much as possible... I'll toss it his direction and see if he's up for doin' some translating.
...though it looks like you guys are figuring it out

Ee-a, li-hon-go-ga sko-shi wa-ka-ti-ma-sen... er something like that. My wife and I took up trying to learn Japaneese... It's different, but a lot of fun to learn.

[Humanoido]

Ee-a, li-hon-go-ga sko-shi wa-ka-ti-ma-sen... er something like that. My wife and I took up trying to learn Japaneese... It's different, but a lot of fun to learn.

ee-ay hashi mashtey domo arigato gozaimas... or something like this...
The spoken language is easier to learn than the written language. You've got Hirigana, Katakana, and Kanji plus the scholastic romanization to learn for the written. Granted, in going from romanized language versions such as Spanish and English, there's a common root. However, in going from Japanese to English, the root is missing. But in going from Japanese to Chinese, not only is there a common root, but many of the written characters are the same. I'm not sure about Korean but the characters seem to be formed differently. The problem with automated language translaters is the same as the problem with some humanoid robots - no intelligence.

Humanoido