MANOI AT01 - Hype? Or really good?

[beermat]

Apologies if this is off topic, although I am interested in other RNs opinions here as I only have a RN and am interested in RN owners take here....Anyway, I see a lot of good reports about the new MANOI robot, about it's power, strength, performance, how excited everyone is about it, etc. - but I can't seem to feel the love? Am I missing something?

I've watched the videos on 'Robots Dreams', but I see nothing spectacular, just incremental improvements if that? The walking seems faster than the Robonovas lumbering gait, and there are claims of record speeds, but I think I've seen videos of the KHR-2 walk faster and straighter (and do other moves faster) than MANOI. Also, on the latest demo videos, I don't see any moves that are any more special than RN out the box (ie the MANOI balancing on one leg and flapping arms) or better than, say, Matts martial arts or Hiveminds handspring. And can it own a Dalek?!

I'm also not lovin' the toy/cartoon-like appearance of the body shell, although it seems that the design of MANOI will allow for other, possibly different body kits?

MANOI also doesn't seem to have any more DOFs than the current crop of RNs or the KHR family (I could be wrong, but the videos dont lead me to believe that). Maybe the potential derived from the servo specs is what causes the excitement?

All in all, though, not feeling it. The Plen, midget that it is, seems to offer more with extra leg DOFs and some cool roller skating/skateboard action which says a lot about its ability balance and the programming skills (and thus manufacturer support with out of the box moves) of the people behind the product, and IT seems to be a robot that advances the cause more?

Any thoughts?

[hivemind]

Well I believe that you are correct, it does not have any additional DOF, but i have seen it do some interesting things, such as the fast walking and being able to move two full litre bottles in a box (first that i have seen of that). So it is a very strong robot, and i think that the reality is that it is a more finished product than the KHS and RNs with the cover and neatness of the wires. Although many RN users cover the wires too, so that could be debated.

The software (walking and other smooth movements) is a sure advantage. But the servos are all made by Kondo, and i believe it follows the same design as the KHR-1 and RN. I am not positive of the specs, but if i remember correctly it is running at a higher voltage than the RN, so the servos can move faster and given some nice PTP commands could give it a smooth look.

Software is everything. Luckily, its open to everyone to write it. Sometimes it is just easier when the KHR-1 gaits are open to the public and there is a lot of support.

Thearetically, one could have the RN walking just about as fast as the MANOI with the highspeed seton. But walking gaits arent easy. We should probably push a thread on that soon and get some public gaits up very similar to the KHR-1 section.

[CaptKill4Fun]

Apologies if this is off topic, although I am interested in other RNs opinions here as I only have a RN and am interested in RN owners take here....Anyway, I see a lot of good reports about the new MANOI robot, about it's power, strength, performance, how excited everyone is about it, etc. - but I can't seem to feel the love? Am I missing something?

I've watched the videos on 'Robots Dreams', but I see nothing spectacular, just incremental improvements if that? The walking seems faster than the Robonovas lumbering gait, and there are claims of record speeds, but I think I've seen videos of the KHR-2 walk faster and straighter (and do other moves faster) than MANOI. Also, on the latest demo videos, I don't see any moves that are any more special than RN out the box (ie the MANOI balancing on one leg and flapping arms) or better than, say, Matts martial arts or Hiveminds handspring. And can it own a Dalek?!

I'm also not lovin' the toy/cartoon-like appearance of the body shell, although it seems that the design of MANOI will allow for other, possibly different body kits?

MANOI also doesn't seem to have any more DOFs than the current crop of RNs or the KHR family (I could be wrong, but the videos dont lead me to believe that). Maybe the potential derived from the servo specs is what causes the excitement?

All in all, though, not feeling it. The Plen, midget that it is, seems to offer more with extra leg DOFs and some cool roller skating/skateboard action which says a lot about its ability balance and the programming skills (and thus manufacturer support with out of the box moves) of the people behind the product, and IT seems to be a robot that advances the cause more?

Any thoughts?

Hi,

This is the part I don't understand ??? If you like the RoboNova-1 and want it to be a better competitor in the biped world ... then why mock those who are trying to make it better?

I make the cardboard demos to show that the designs are functional and correctly fit.

But all I get is grief for trying to drum-up some support ???

So again I ask, if you want a better RoboNova-1, why bully those who are trying to create solutions?

Why not provide supportive input for those concepts to make even better new components for the RoboNova-1?

[bauermech]

The MANOI is a great robot actually. Tempusmaster has many of the specs on it. He'd be the one to answer this one.
However, from what I know...
It's got nearly yhte same controller as the KHR-HV2, the RCB-3 (KHR has the RCB-3J - which doesn't have the serial link). Fully interrupt capable. The servos are indeed higher torque, faster, and have a much greater resolution, plus rotate... I think it was like a 260 deg range? The plastic cartoon-like casing can be customized via vacuum-forming. Nice touch if you ask me.

I'll leave the rest to tempusmaster to fill you in and correct any mistakes I've made.

[beermat]

Interesting....interesting. I'm just a few weeks into this whole field, and only with a RN, so I'm not at the point where I can recognize what seem like nuances to me but really are vital improvements to the more experienced, plus I'm not necessarily gleaning all the appropriate facts, which is why I looked for others to comment.

Fully interrupt capable is definately a big plus. Whilst new to robotics, software is my life and I was quickly frustrated with the language for RN. No interrupts or multithreading capabilities, not even simple stuff like parameter passing to SUBs (unless I'm missing that?!), so that's a big plus. Strength is also important but as every action has an equal and opposite reaction, balance and posture are equally important, I would imagine? And, although I'm not a fan of the stock body casing, I forgot to mention that I do think it is a plus in the way it is designed to potentially integrate different body casings when Matt manufactures them

I fully agree with Hive - if we could get a 'walking' thread going and figure out how to work together on improving the stock one, that'd be awesome. It seems to be one of the weak areas in RNs motion repertoire, albiet the conservative gait means repeatable and stable with some room for a range of zero positions, which is probably and understandably more important to Hitec. But it's been almost a year since RN hit the shelves?!

And Capt - in this Internet world, you need to have a thick skin to take what people can throw at you on forums. I think you placed too much emphasis on saying the cardboard designs prove your product works, and we jumped on it. Prototypes prove one thing definatively, and that is that the prototype is a prototype. Nothing more. They usually show the concept is good in principle, but do NOT prove the real thing works. How many designers and engineers have built scale prototypes out of easily worked materials and had them fail abysmally when scaled up, or attempted to be made out of the real material, or put under real life stresses, or all of the above. Theory and reality are sadly different. My professional career is about turning theoretical concepts into reality, and it just aint that easy. Tell me you at least understand the merits of this argument? Show me that your grippers can support the RN in a handstand without collapsing in on themselves, and I'll consider them. You cannot show me that using cardboard. And I'm not handing over cash to a stranger on the internet for nothing in return in the hope that enough other people do the same to generate enough funds to make it a zero-loss venture for you. You also have to see the rationale behind all this, right? Matt produced home made prototypes out of aluminum and demo'd them, too. That's a key difference.

But, one thing I do not want to do is appear to bully you or suppress your desire to advance this community. You've obviously put a lot of thought and effort into what you are doing and you do have a goal of making it easier for us to customize our 'bots, and I thank you for that, and you are definately down the path with the principles. I'm just a seein' is believin' guy with a dry/evil sense of humour and, well, you just gotta deal with that and blow our minds and produce a real product

[tempusmaster]

The MANOI is a great robot actually. Tempusmaster has many of the specs on it. He'd be the one to answer this one.
However, from what I know...
It's got nearly yhte same controller as the KHR-HV2, the RCB-3 (KHR has the RCB-3J - which doesn't have the serial link). Fully interrupt capable. The servos are indeed higher torque, faster, and have a much greater resolution, plus rotate... I think it was like a 260 deg range? The plastic cartoon-like casing can be customized via vacuum-forming. Nice touch if you ask me.

I'll leave the rest to tempusmaster to fill you in and correct any mistakes I've made.

It all depends on what you're looking for, and what you intend to do with your robot.

The AT01 is more powerful, more upgradable, more customizeable, and more expensive. It's currently, or will be as soon as it hits store shelves next month, the top of the line. The KHR-1, KHR-2HV, and Robonova-1 are ROBO-ONE J class, while the AT01 is a full fledged ROBO-ONE class robot.

The body is much more solid and dimensionally stable - no soft aluminum, which could be a positive or negative depending on how much modification you have in mind.

As Matt mentioned, the AT01 servos are higher torque and have a wider angular rotation range (260). Plus, if you don't mind spending some additional bucks, the servo form factor is the same as other Kondo servos that would double or even quadruple the torque without having to make any frame or mounting modifications.

It's not for everyone, of course, but personally I happen to like it a lot as you can tell from my posts on Robots Dreams.

[Lomruz]

This is it! Robolution is here to stay!

This new bot might as well be the next companion to my RN-1

But oh the price

[beermat]

Thanks for sharing the thoughts so far! Hopefully, you aren't taking my post in the wrong way; I'm not a 'hater', more of a nub not too afraid to put my ignorant questions out there, looking to have more experienced souls inform me of what I should be looking for in the new robots. I definately devour every post on Robots Dreams, it's a very informative and interesting site, and you certainly have much more exposure to the real deal than I do, so I appreciate all the insights, on there and on here. I have a feeling that I might get a second 'bot in the next year, something that can fight back better than a Dalek that just spins around uttering random phrases, so the more I understand about what matters, the better choice I can make!

[1UpCheatachu]

I will most likely get an RN-1, because I like the grippers and all the mods I can do to it. However, the MANOI ATO1 is also a great robot. It just depends what you want, I guess.

[tempusmaster]

Thanks for sharing the thoughts so far! Hopefully, you aren't taking my post in the wrong way; I'm not a 'hater',

I didn't take it that way at all.

more of a nub not too afraid to put my ignorant questions out there,

The only truly ignorant question is the one that doesn't get asked.

looking to have more experienced souls inform me of what I should be looking for in the new robots. I definately devour every post on Robots Dreams, it's a very informative and interesting site, and you certainly have much more exposure to the real deal than I do, so I appreciate all the insights, on there and on here.

Thank you. Your feedback is definitely appreciated, whether its positive or negative.

I have a feeling that I might get a second 'bot in the next year, something that can fight back better than a Dalek that just spins around uttering random phrases, so the more I understand about what matters, the better choice I can make!

I think that's true for all of us. Living here in Japan I have very little exposure to things going on in the States, Europe, and the rest of the world.

For example, until the past few weeks I thought that the Robot Wars world was pretty bizarre and extreme. But thanks to some feedback and help from one of my readers I've started to gain much more appreciation for that particular robo-sport. That doesn't mean that I'm going to start building a buzz saw equipped destroyer anytime in the near future, but at least now I understand why some people are so turned on by it.

By the way, this particular forum, thanks to all the hard work and dedication by Limor and outstanding participation by all the members, is my favorite English language robotic hang out and helps me a lot. I learn much more here than I am able to contribute in return.

[Chrisbie]

Is there any definite date of Release for MANOI robots? Will there be English version of that robot? i hope it will be available soon in US Market....

[tempusmaster]

Is there any definite date of Release for MANOI robots?

For the AT01, the "monitor" (beta) units are supposed to be shipping to selected customers (50) now. The official date for open sales in Japan is "Mid-September". That being said, Kyosho has missed dates before.

The PF01 is further out, and will probably start shipping in late October or November. Kyosho hasn't even quoted a target price for the PF01 yet.

Will there be English version of that robot?

Kyosho hasn't said - which probably means 'not right away'. They may be working with a third party exporter though since that's fairly common here.

The good news is that the AT01 uses the Kondo RCB-3 controller. The KHR-2HV uses the RCB-3J, which is almost identical.

i hope it will be available soon in US Market....

You might try contacting Kyosho America to let them know you might be interested. It could help accelerate the process.

[Ghostrider]

Thearetically, one could have the RN walking just about as fast as the MANOI with the highspeed seton.

It should be easy enough to test. How about timing your RN doing 2 meters or 5 meters as a baseline to start from?

[hivemind]

I believe the stock walk is about 9.5 seconds in a meter (I believe thats what my robot got at stock...) And unfortunetly a simple increase of speed wont help, itl just become unbalanced.

What i meant was that given the correct gait and highspeed mode, one could probably get a close speed to the MANOI. Granted the MANOI is more powerfull/ has more freedom in the servos, has finer control, and plenty of other adcantages. But its legs work on a very similar principle.

[beermat]

9.5 seconds for a meter? I just timed mine using a loop around the stock walk and it's between 20-25 seconds?