RoboBuilder.net => Megarobotics - Take #2
RoboBuilder.net => Megarobotics - Take #2
by limor
Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:46 am
For those of you who remember megarobotics.com (currently domain is owned by spammers so dont go there, instead check it out on http://web.archive.org/web/megarobotics. )
Now there is a new incarnation from the original inventors of modular robotics with daisy-chain serial control bus - for hobby and research. www.RoboBuilder.net (a.k.a: www.irobou.com)
No pricing yet and video performance leaves something to be desired but very cool nonetheless.
Now there is a new incarnation from the original inventors of modular robotics with daisy-chain serial control bus - for hobby and research. www.RoboBuilder.net (a.k.a: www.irobou.com)
No pricing yet and video performance leaves something to be desired but very cool nonetheless.
Last edited by limor on Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
by limor
Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:38 pm
They have 2 very interesting points of innovation. The first is their modular approach and various servo connectors. The second is the ability to change the PID controller parameters in the servos (www.openservo.org).
Here are some answers to my questions:
Are the P, I, and D co-efficients configurable in your servos?
--> Yes, PID co-efficients are all configurable by using the wCK programmer software. You can go to the download the manual from the download page. Please download and see the Kit manual too.
what is the difference between power and high-power servos ? which ones have metal gears?
--> Power modules have 1.1W output power. There're two models of power module, which are 1108 and 1111. The torque of 1108 is 8kg.cm while the one of 1111 is 11kg.cm. 1111 model has metal gears in it (gear #2 and #3 among four gears). High-power modules are under development and will have higher power ratings, which will correspond to the RX series of Robotis.
can your communication protocol work simultaneously for sending and receiving packets? If I send a request to one servo can I get a reply from another servo at the same time? ie: effectively 1.8mbps communications speed ?
--> As our protocol is full-duplex, you can get a response from one module at the same time when you send a request to another module. One feature of the protocol is that each command always receive response packet from wCK module. And because the protocol has a special command that orders all connected modules to act simultaneously, your requirement can be realized even under 921,600bps(max speed). Please see the protocol part of the wCK manual and let me know if you need further explanation.
I dont understand the differences between the 5710K kit and 5720T in terms of functionality : one is transparent servos? one has LED and sound ?
--> 5720T model consists of transparent modules each of which has two
LEDs(blue, red) built-in. It also has PSD sensor in the head part as well
as sound chip inside control box. These functionalities provide higher
values for customers by helping them program interactive robot actions.
Here are some answers to my questions:
Are the P, I, and D co-efficients configurable in your servos?
--> Yes, PID co-efficients are all configurable by using the wCK programmer software. You can go to the download the manual from the download page. Please download and see the Kit manual too.
what is the difference between power and high-power servos ? which ones have metal gears?
--> Power modules have 1.1W output power. There're two models of power module, which are 1108 and 1111. The torque of 1108 is 8kg.cm while the one of 1111 is 11kg.cm. 1111 model has metal gears in it (gear #2 and #3 among four gears). High-power modules are under development and will have higher power ratings, which will correspond to the RX series of Robotis.
can your communication protocol work simultaneously for sending and receiving packets? If I send a request to one servo can I get a reply from another servo at the same time? ie: effectively 1.8mbps communications speed ?
--> As our protocol is full-duplex, you can get a response from one module at the same time when you send a request to another module. One feature of the protocol is that each command always receive response packet from wCK module. And because the protocol has a special command that orders all connected modules to act simultaneously, your requirement can be realized even under 921,600bps(max speed). Please see the protocol part of the wCK manual and let me know if you need further explanation.
I dont understand the differences between the 5710K kit and 5720T in terms of functionality : one is transparent servos? one has LED and sound ?
--> 5720T model consists of transparent modules each of which has two
LEDs(blue, red) built-in. It also has PSD sensor in the head part as well
as sound chip inside control box. These functionalities provide higher
values for customers by helping them program interactive robot actions.
by limor
Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:54 pm
Check out their latest downloadable documents.
These guys came up with an original way of utilizing motion data created using a visual Motion Editor data, - inside a C program.
You create the motions using a familiar interface:
..and the output is a C include file with arrays of data that can be referenced from your main program:
[/code]
These guys came up with an original way of utilizing motion data created using a visual Motion Editor data, - inside a C program.
You create the motions using a familiar interface:
..and the output is a C include file with arrays of data that can be referenced from your main program:
- Code: Select all
//==========================================================
// Project : [ p_ex1 ]
// SoftWare : Motion Builder v1.10 beta
// Date,Time : 2008-04-14 ¿ÀÈÄ 2:25:11
// Format : ME_FMT#1
// Number of Motions : 1
// Number of wCKs : 16
//==========================================================
unsigned char flash wCK_IDs[16]={
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
};
unsigned char flash MotionZeroPos[16]={
/* ID
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 */
125,202,162, 66,108,125, 51, 86,183,142, 89, 42,124,161,208,127
};
//----------------------------------------------------------
// Motion Name : M_EX1
//----------------------------------------------------------
#define M_EX1_NUM_OF_SCENES 10
#define M_EX1_NUM_OF_WCKS 16
unsigned char flash M_EX1_RuntimePGain[16]={
/* ID
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 */
20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20
};
unsigned char flash M_EX1_RuntimeDGain[16]={
/* ID
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 */
30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30
};
unsigned char flash M_EX1_RuntimeIGain[16]={
/* ID
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 */
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
};
unsigned int flash M_EX1_Frames[10]={
1, 30, 10, 3, 10, 10, 1, 1, 10, 30
};
unsigned int flash M_EX1_TrTime[10]={
500, 1000, 300, 100, 300, 300, 50, 600, 300, 1000
};
unsigned char flash M_EX1_Position[11][16]={
/* ID
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 */
{ 125,179,199, 88,108,126, 72, 49,163,141, 51, 47, 49,199,205,205 },
{ 125,179,199, 88,108,126, 72, 49,163,141, 51, 47, 49,199,205,205 }, // Idx:0 - Scene_0
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141, 51, 47, 49,199,205,205 }, // Idx:1 - Scene_1
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141,109, 39, 6,177,205,242 }, // Idx:2 - Scene_2
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141,171, 39, 81,169,205,241 }, // Idx:3 - Scene_3
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141,109, 39, 6,177,205,242 }, // Idx:4 - Scene_2
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141,171, 39, 81,169,205,241 }, // Idx:5 - Scene_4
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141, 42, 43, 31, 54,206,133 }, // Idx:6 - Scene_6
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141, 42, 43, 31, 54,206,133 }, // Idx:7 - Scene_6
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141,109, 39, 6,177,205,242 }, // Idx:8 - Scene_2
{ 125,150,248,112,108,126,100, 1,139,141, 51, 47, 49,199,206,205 } // Idx:9 - Scene_1
};
unsigned char flash M_EX1_Torque[10][16]={
/* ID
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 */
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:0 - Scene_0
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:1 - Scene_1
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:2 - Scene_2
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:3 - Scene_3
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:4 - Scene_2
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:5 - Scene_4
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:6 - Scene_6
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:7 - Scene_6
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 }, // Idx:8 - Scene_2
{ 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2 } // Idx:9 - Scene_1
};
unsigned char flash M_EX1_Port[10][16]={
/* ID
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 */
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:0 - Scene_0
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:1 - Scene_1
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:2 - Scene_2
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:3 - Scene_3
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:4 - Scene_2
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:5 - Scene_4
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:6 - Scene_6
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:7 - Scene_6
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 }, // Idx:8 - Scene_2
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 } // Idx:9 - Scene_1
};
[/code]
by limor
Sat May 24, 2008 1:16 pm
New piece of software for RoboBuilder kit called ActionBuilder is designed to help create basic "if (condition) do-something.." including loops using jump-to index as shown in the screenshot..
Download ActionBuilder and PDF manual here
Once the C API is available to perform high-level commands like "Sound Out" and "Motion Out" (and some info regarding C compiler and uploading firmware), then the combination of Motion Builder that outputs C files with the high-level API with the advanced PID servo control, will provide a great development environment for advanced robot control.
Download ActionBuilder and PDF manual here
Once the C API is available to perform high-level commands like "Sound Out" and "Motion Out" (and some info regarding C compiler and uploading firmware), then the combination of Motion Builder that outputs C files with the high-level API with the advanced PID servo control, will provide a great development environment for advanced robot control.
by limor
Sat May 24, 2008 2:21 pm
smile_nik wrote:450 and 660 $ at http://www.funshop.co.kr/vs/detail.aspx?categoryno=220&itemno=5694
can someone with more experience compare this robot with the Biloid ?
We are planning to import to Europe and sell these kits at RoboSavvy.com as soon as i'm confident that there's enough documented software for anyone to be able to program the robot to do the things seen in the videos ; and enough technical information needed to reprogram, hack and interface the robot to gyros and accelerometers. We will be announcing pre-ordering opportunity pretty soon.
Indeed there are many similarities with Bioloid. My guess is that the first incarnation of these daisy-chained robot servos dates back to 2005 when there were two companies doing them - Robotis and MegaRobotics (see beginning of this thread) which probably spun out of the same design team.
Here are some lines of comparison:
Bioloid Comprehensive (Korean price $800) has 18 AX12 servos compared to 16 servos of the Robobuilder and the Bioloid ones are more powerful - 12kg-cm compared to Robobuilder 8kg-cm.
Communication between AX12 servos is through 1mbps 1-wire UART. Robobuilder servos talk bi-directionally at 921,600bps but they use 2 wires (RX,TX) therefore allowing theoretically communications at 1.8mbps. This is hardcore techie stuff that matters only to those that want to experiment with "closed loop control" where a powerful CPU analyzes all sensory data 100 times/second and controls all the servos using neural nets in real-time or some other holistic control approach similar to robotic stock/forex trading.
Bioloid humanoid size and weight are probably twice that of Robobuilder.
Bioloid AXS1 block has several distance and sound sensors. Robobuilder has a block with distance and sound sensor.
Bioloid servos are colored gray and the Robobuilder servos are either shiny black or transparent with fancy LEDs. Some people are likely to find the Robobuilder robots more visually appealing or cute.
Robobuilder claims explicit configurable PID control parameters. Bioloid servos have configurable control parameters that have been tested extensively and work very well around the holding positions. It is yet to be seen if the Robobuilder servos provide real speed control during transition from one position to another, something that Bioloid servos don't. This is hardcore techie stuff that doesn't matter to all but few robotics researchers and teachers of advanced robot control.
Bioloid Software has gone through 3 years of debugging and releases. Robobuilder software is not completely cooked. Although they are developing new stuff quite rapidly. Both Bioloid and Robobuilder are designed to be used as a development platform rather than a remote-control toy (Robosapien, i-Sobot etc.).
by RobotServicesGroup
Sun May 25, 2008 9:29 pm
In terms of size, the English instruction manual shows on page 11 that the humanoid version is 285mm or 11.2inches and 1.25kg or 2.8lbs which makes this robot only slightly smaller and lighter than a Bioloid or other competing robots. One of the more interesting aspects is the motion file sharing network, where users can upload their own motions to share. This will only be workable if everyone sets the home position exactly the same. Fortunately, the robot comes with a plastic tray to help set the home position exactly. Battery life is dissappointing at only 10 to 30 minutes, but at least you can operate the robot while plugged directly into the wall. Manuals and software in English is a big plus!
Should be a very interesting platform. Can't wait for it to be available.
Should be a very interesting platform. Can't wait for it to be available.
by limor
Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:02 pm
Robobuilders have released the Atmega128 I/O mapping on the RBC controller board. This is before even releasing pictures of the board. I always welcome Atmega128 boards as I'm now very much familiar with the Atmega family of CPUs.
This clearly shows the intention of Robobuilder to make this an open development platform where users can use this information to create their own firmware to control RoboBuilder servos.
This clearly shows the intention of Robobuilder to make this an open development platform where users can use this information to create their own firmware to control RoboBuilder servos.
by limor
Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:52 pm
Wingzero wrote:Hey limor,
Are you also going to stock the individual parts and [upgrade] servos? Im interested in this kit after doing alot of research on it and might just want to purchase one.
Hi, we will definitely order spares and upgrade servos.
The main question is which model will be more popular.. the black (more affordable) or the transparent (fancy LEDs)
feedback welcome
