C Coding

[Joe]

This is now a google project
...
http://code.google.com/p/robobuilderlib/

Great! I've retrieved my Google password, and am ready to join. Please sign me up (joe at strout dot net) if you like.

I didn't see a mailing list link... should we start a Google mailing list for that project, or just continue our discussion here?

Best,
— Joe

[PedroR]

Hi

I see you guys are being really active in developing the firmware and the associated software on the windows PC.

May I ask if you have already implemented the x and X commands to feed commands to the servo bus?

You mentioned it but I hadn't heard anything about since.
However, I read today your post about decoding the RMB files so I'm assuming you were able to implement some part of this.

Could you post some more details on that, please?

Thanks
Pedro.

[l3v3rz]

Yes - the x/X command is working. My .NET client code runs the motion in using this. Because it sends every frame it runs on a timer sending a synch position command every 20ms or so. Joe is working on a alternative binary based protocol where you only send the scene end positions, and so you are only updating every second or. This is called slaveserial mode.

We also have the ability to query the servos and the sensors remotely.

I upload hex files of stable revisions into the download area, I think the latest is r35, where as if you download the src were currently on around r55.

cheers

[PedroR]

Hi l3v3rz

Considering the kind of project you are developing I would like to suggest you have a look at this new product http://robosavvy.com/site/index.php?opt ... Itemid=135

I myself will be doing a couple of demos (not as elaborate as yours) using the board.
It is a full blown PC, it's quite light and uses less power than a servo.
Being a full blown PC means you can install and run Windows XP or Linux on it.

It may be of interest to you in that it will let you do all the Advanced Vision processing onboard, having the board on the robot itself.

If you have the opportunity, let me know what's your opinion on it.

Thanks
Pedro.

[l3v3rz]

Hi,

I noticed the board on your site and it does look very interesting. Look forward to seeing your demo. I think there's a real opportunity for the robot companies to build some more advanced controller options. The current ones feel like you're programming in back in the late 80s on 8 bit micros - still I suppose that's some of the fun! But it would be good to be able to go from 20MHz up to even 200MHz let alone 1GHz. Plus USB and flash memory SD cards. Personally (due to my lack of hardware hackery) I'd prefer something that was a direct - plug/play replacement for the existing MCU.

On the subject of upgrades - what happened to metal bracket kits and hip joints etc. Or even different body shells etc .... Are these available / And are there any options for grippers etc ?

cheers

l3v3rz.

[PedroR]

well the guys in Korea changed their priorities and focused on their new 5740K (which we won't be stocking on a regular basis; you can see it in action on the thread we posted about BETT) + Microsoft Robotics Studio Support.

However, I managed to negotiate with them purchasing the metal brackets kits they use on the 5740K.
I should post further details on that in a couple of weeks.
The base price tag for that (leg brackets + arm brackets + chest) should be about 105~110 GBP + VAT.
There are still a couple of details I do not know such as colours.

With regards to the hip pivot and/or grippers I can try and get more information.

Finally with regards to the board it can actually work as a drop in replacement for the RBC controller board. Because the COMM ports are at TTL level and the board can power the COMM ports, you just connect the battery to the x86 board and the servo/wCK bus cable to the board directly.
Because you seem to have already cracked the RBM file format, there is nothing preventing you from just replacing the board with this one.

[i-Bot]

Hi Pedro,

Did you manage to get the metal final gears for the servos ?

Thx,
Richard

[l3v3rz]

Thanks Pedro -

Looked for video on 5740T - but couldn't find on BETT - can you post a direct link? Do you have any specs? - and why are you not stocking - is it the price tag ?

On RB100 board - I agree on an electrical basis, but from what I saw of the specs, physically it was slightly bigger (ony 5-10mm] and so would require quite a bit of hacking, breakout boards, etc to replace the current MCU which puts me off. its a shame as if it didn't have all those PWM connectors it would probably fit. It would be ideal for a complete homebrew machine

I can now drive the robot remotely from my desktop over bluetooth. using the homebrew OS, plus my .NET client being able to read RBM files and send them directly.

I was interested in the idea of using IR to keep the robot running in a straight line - is the work limor etc have done on this published any where - or top secret ?

From an eductaion point of view the homebrew OS myself and Joe are developing now has a basic interpreter built in - so you can develop programs very easily. To see examples : http://code.google.com/p/robobuilderlib/wiki/Basic.

cheers

[PedroR]

To Richard:

Yes we will stock the metal gears in a one time only event.
We will order this and a few metal brackets kits in next order we place from Robobuilder (which should be by the end of this month).

Before placing the order I will place the items online for pre-order so anyone can order as many as they wish and we will then order all the items at once.

I believe it will be simpler and also easier for us. From a general sales perspective there's not a regular demand for these items.
However, we do want to please our loyal customers so this is what I am proposing for now.
We can do the same with any other item from Robobuilder or other manufacturer.
What are your thoughts on this?

To l3v3rz:
The video of the 5740K is here:
<embed src="http://blip.tv/play/Aea9VpLCUg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="720" height="606" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

We are not planning on stocking the 5740K due to the high price tag. Again we are able to fulfil custom orders for this if someone wishes to purchase it.
Richard saw it and can also share his appreciation.
In my opinion it is not worth the very expensive price tag. The robot has the same RBC controller, with custom motions programmed into it.
It also comes with Bluetooth and a Bluetooth PS2 gamepad. (the gamepad is also available for separate purchase if you wish; although you can reproduce something similar inexpensively using your computer and the JoyRemocon software I wrote.).
Additionally it includes a LiPolymer battery but it's kind of hacked into the robot. The charging procedure is not integrated into the RBC (the RBC only displays a low battery light), so you need to use an external charger.
The servos seem the same except they seem to have the 4th with metal gear. They do have the particularity of being very fast but I dpn't know if it is something different in the servo or just different programming. From what I've seen I would go with the programming because they didn't seem to invest much in developing hardware for that model.

The cool thing is indeed the metal brackets which we will be stocking in a couple of weeks as I mentioned.

[PedroR]

another thing to notice is that the metal brackets set seem to affect the robot weight distribution positively.
You can see from the video it seems to have a more stable behaviour.
A lot of time also seems to have been put into programming the kung fu motions.
Take a look at how it moves the arms in a synchronized manner to counter the forces/weight transfer of the sidekick.

EDIT: In the subject of weight distribution, it replaces the standard battery pack with a LiPo one, which I think is housed in the middle of the chest.
This probably makes a difference as well by reducing the mass on the top half of the robot and also, placing the battery weight right over the supposed center of mass.

[PedroR]

Hi

Because this is the C coding thread, I did not want to get off topic discussing the accessories included in the 5740K.
I managed to talk to the guys at Robobuilder and many of the accessories will be available separatelly for the 5710 and 5720. The thread is here:
http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19556#19556

The thread discusses these accessories:
- Metal Brackets Set

- 4th metal gear and FULL metal gears (gears 1,2,3 and 4 in metal instead of just gear 4).
Full metal gears are something new that I did not know about. It's also probably what is used in the 5740K servos.
I remember commenting with Richard the when we moved the servos, they did feel more robust and smoother, so this is probably the mystery behind the servos.

- LiPo battery upgrade pack. Essentially it's the same solution used in the 5740K. It includes a LiPo battery and an external charger.
For charging purposes the RBC is only used to display LOW battery warnings.
As I mentioned it is not a native solution (it's kind of hacked because you need to use an external charger) but it does provide a complete kit with everything necessary for direct replacement of the battery pack.

- Hip Pivot kit (YES, I hope this time we will finally get it!)

[i-Bot]

Joe and Phil,
Wow guys, just been trying the robobuilderlib code and you have really done a great job on it.

I modified to support my 18DOF and import my own modified header files. I also had to change line 511 of motion.c from:
while(F_PLAYING); // wait till scene interpolation complete
to:
while(F_PLAYING) process_frames(); // process frames on timer till scene interpolation complete

Now working fine from serial or PS2 controller.

I may add some bits to include offsets (zero positions, gyro) to the servo positions, also to add support for the IR Camera. I am not yet SVN savvy, so my contribution may be a little patchy.