by PaulL » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:55 am
by PaulL
Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:55 am
Matt,
I ended up buying a card that uses an AC'97 codec, but the board isn't compatible with it. I have spent a LOT of time in the past couple weeks working on this issue. I didn't realize the AC'97 problem until after I ordered the card. It's a combo capture card / AC '97 codec card, MP-878AS. It is out of production, as is the MP-878S (a version of this same card with an ALS4000 chip that was BEFORE the whole AC '97 junk came out).
In short, I am skeptical that a Mini PCI sound card was EVER built, other than the now out-of-production and impossible-to-find MP-878S from Commwell.
The MP-878A, AS, and S, all use the same PCB. From the only picture I've been able to find of the MP-878S, it looks like the only difference between an AS (the one I bought w/ AC'97 codec) and an S (uses the ALS4000 chip) is that the capture chip is removed, its crystal / oscillator is removed, and the AC'97 codec is removed, and the spot for the ALS4000 is populated, along with the crystal / oscillator at 14.318 Mhz for the ALS4000 (codec uses a 24 mhz something or other).
I got the bright idea in my head to find an ALS4000 chip, remove the codec chip, and swap out the oscillator / crystal. I can't order the chip from anywhere in the states that I can find- it, too, is out of production. Consequently, the ALS4000 was originally produced by Avance Logic (no D in the name), which apparently got bought by Realtek at some point (that's where the ALS4000 documentation can be found).
I bought a few sound cards off Ebay in a lot of "PCI Sound cards", one of which I knew to have an ALS4000 on it from the listing. To my luck, I received TWO ALS4000-based cards. Or maybe it wasn't luck, I can't say for sure at this point.
I removed the codec chip from the MP-878AS, painstakingly removed the ALS4000 from one of the sound cards and installed it on the MP-878AS (that was a lot of work, but I'll skip the ugly details), and guessed by tracing the board that the oscillator / crystal was just a crystal by tracing what traces on the board I could see (it's also a multi-layer board). I used the crystal from one of the sound cards, 14.318 Mhz (just what an ALS4000 needs). I left the BT878 capture chip, hoping I could retain that capability along with sound on one card.
I put the card in my Roboard, powered it on, and only got the Red LED, the green one stayed off. The card kept the Roboard from booting. So, in frustration, I removed the BT878 and its oscillator from the board in such a way that it will never go back on this board (or any board) again. I made sure no shorts were left from removing the BT878, and tried again. No boot. The ALS4000 chip (the only one left on the board other than the headphone amp chip) gets warm when it sits for a bit, but not enough to fry it.
I have one of several problems at this point:
1- the ALS4000 I used is fried / damaged, either from the shock of removing it, too much thermal exposure, static, or blown prior to my receiving it on its sound card. I will never know for sure what went wrong with it.
2- the crystal SHOULD be an oscillator. The connections to the ALS4000 run to the bottom left / top right connections where the crystal / oscillator is surface-mounted, it shouldn't be like this for an OSC, and none of the pads tie to ground, which would be quite odd. Also, I can not look up the OSC, I can not identify the manufacturer, or they've got out of business- "TQG".
3- the board isn't compatible with the ALS4000 due to some BIOS issue. Possible, but I have no way of knowing that.
A footnote, the ALS4000 was one of few sound card chips that incorporated an entire sound card in one chip.
I have checked and rechecked my soldering job on the ALS4000, visually, and with a meter, a couple times around the chip. This chip has 100 pins, and definitely isn't for the faint of heart when it comes to soldering.
I could have started with a bad ALS4000, which really will tick me off if I removed the BT878 capture chip for nothing. But, I just don't have enough information to determine that right now.
I have considered purchasing a Mini PCI to PCI slot adapter that would attach to Roboard and provide two standard PCI slots to test my 2nd ALS4000, but at more than $200 USD, that's really steep just to check to see if it works. At that point, the original MP-878AS, the sound card lot, and a mini-PCI to PCI board, would cost more than the entire Roboard.
Here's the Mini-PCI to PCI adapter:
The only site I can find that actually has them wants over $230 USD something for them.
Part of me is considering trying to obtain some "fresh" unmounted ALS4000's, and designing and building some sound cards around them. But, if this doesn't solve my sound problem, the whole exercise would be a whole lot of time and effort for nothing (and it already is a good bit of that so far, out of $100 US with a card that can prevent the Roboard from booting).
Yeah, I'm frustrated.
Good news? I didn't fry my Roboard.
Paul
Matt,
I ended up buying a card that uses an AC'97 codec, but the board isn't compatible with it. I have spent a LOT of time in the past couple weeks working on this issue. I didn't realize the AC'97 problem until after I ordered the card. It's a combo capture card / AC '97 codec card, MP-878AS. It is out of production, as is the MP-878S (a version of this same card with an ALS4000 chip that was BEFORE the whole AC '97 junk came out).
In short, I am skeptical that a Mini PCI sound card was EVER built, other than the now out-of-production and impossible-to-find MP-878S from Commwell.
The MP-878A, AS, and S, all use the same PCB. From the only picture I've been able to find of the MP-878S, it looks like the only difference between an AS (the one I bought w/ AC'97 codec) and an S (uses the ALS4000 chip) is that the capture chip is removed, its crystal / oscillator is removed, and the AC'97 codec is removed, and the spot for the ALS4000 is populated, along with the crystal / oscillator at 14.318 Mhz for the ALS4000 (codec uses a 24 mhz something or other).
I got the bright idea in my head to find an ALS4000 chip, remove the codec chip, and swap out the oscillator / crystal. I can't order the chip from anywhere in the states that I can find- it, too, is out of production. Consequently, the ALS4000 was originally produced by Avance Logic (no D in the name), which apparently got bought by Realtek at some point (that's where the ALS4000 documentation can be found).
I bought a few sound cards off Ebay in a lot of "PCI Sound cards", one of which I knew to have an ALS4000 on it from the listing. To my luck, I received TWO ALS4000-based cards. Or maybe it wasn't luck, I can't say for sure at this point.
I removed the codec chip from the MP-878AS, painstakingly removed the ALS4000 from one of the sound cards and installed it on the MP-878AS (that was a lot of work, but I'll skip the ugly details), and guessed by tracing the board that the oscillator / crystal was just a crystal by tracing what traces on the board I could see (it's also a multi-layer board). I used the crystal from one of the sound cards, 14.318 Mhz (just what an ALS4000 needs). I left the BT878 capture chip, hoping I could retain that capability along with sound on one card.
I put the card in my Roboard, powered it on, and only got the Red LED, the green one stayed off. The card kept the Roboard from booting. So, in frustration, I removed the BT878 and its oscillator from the board in such a way that it will never go back on this board (or any board) again. I made sure no shorts were left from removing the BT878, and tried again. No boot. The ALS4000 chip (the only one left on the board other than the headphone amp chip) gets warm when it sits for a bit, but not enough to fry it.
I have one of several problems at this point:
1- the ALS4000 I used is fried / damaged, either from the shock of removing it, too much thermal exposure, static, or blown prior to my receiving it on its sound card. I will never know for sure what went wrong with it.
2- the crystal SHOULD be an oscillator. The connections to the ALS4000 run to the bottom left / top right connections where the crystal / oscillator is surface-mounted, it shouldn't be like this for an OSC, and none of the pads tie to ground, which would be quite odd. Also, I can not look up the OSC, I can not identify the manufacturer, or they've got out of business- "TQG".
3- the board isn't compatible with the ALS4000 due to some BIOS issue. Possible, but I have no way of knowing that.
A footnote, the ALS4000 was one of few sound card chips that incorporated an entire sound card in one chip.
I have checked and rechecked my soldering job on the ALS4000, visually, and with a meter, a couple times around the chip. This chip has 100 pins, and definitely isn't for the faint of heart when it comes to soldering.
I could have started with a bad ALS4000, which really will tick me off if I removed the BT878 capture chip for nothing. But, I just don't have enough information to determine that right now.
I have considered purchasing a Mini PCI to PCI slot adapter that would attach to Roboard and provide two standard PCI slots to test my 2nd ALS4000, but at more than $200 USD, that's really steep just to check to see if it works. At that point, the original MP-878AS, the sound card lot, and a mini-PCI to PCI board, would cost more than the entire Roboard.
Here's the Mini-PCI to PCI adapter:
The only site I can find that actually has them wants over $230 USD something for them.
Part of me is considering trying to obtain some "fresh" unmounted ALS4000's, and designing and building some sound cards around them. But, if this doesn't solve my sound problem, the whole exercise would be a whole lot of time and effort for nothing (and it already is a good bit of that so far, out of $100 US with a card that can prevent the Roboard from booting).
Yeah, I'm frustrated.
Good news? I didn't fry my Roboard.
Paul