eBox 3350MX Compact PC Teardown & Review

[PedroR]

Hi gordonjcp

If you're planning to recompile the kernel for the eBox 3350 I recommend you download all the related resources from the DMP Roboard website http://www.roboard.com/download_ml.htm

Roboard is the most technical division of DMP and the kernels they produce are built to support all versions of DMP processors.
In fact the kernel we recommend you use with the eBox was compiled by them.
(in my personal opinion recompiling the kernel seems a bit like using a bazooca to kill a fly if you'll only be using it for generic applications)

As I mentioned the solution we documented in this thread has worked perfectly for us (and for other customers who have given us veyr positive feedback) and all the package management and features of Ubuntu 10.04 work perfectly with this kernel. As a side note our Ubuntu install automatically updated all the packages in the distro to the latest versions.

The only occasion where we encountered issues installing Ubuntu and updating the kernel was in our initial attempt using an SD card from an unknown vendor with a MicroSd to full SD adapter.

This is also documented if you read the thread and we also explain (and reinforce) that you should use SD cards from reputed vendors such Sandisk, Kingston, etc and use Full Size SD (not microSD with adapters).
This IS known (and documented) to cause problems of the kind you describe.

With regards to the errors about the symbolic link installing the package you can see it's a symbolic link to a folder with kernel headers. Kernel headers are not usually needed unless you're compiling against the kernel libraries (and hence were removed to reduce size).
Still, you can download the kernel WITH kernel headers from the Roboard website (linked above) if you do need them for your application.

That IS also available.

Finally with regards to your concerns about the lack of information about the processor architecture, please reffer to this website: http://www.dmp.com.tw/tech/vortex86mx/
The detailed Architecture information is available on this document: ftp://download@ftp.dmp.com.tw/DMP_Vorte ... 091216.pdf

Unfirtunatelly you still haven't mentioned which file/kernel version you tried to install (and where you downloaded it from) neither which version of Linux you were using so we're a bit limited in the assistance we can provide.

I hope you find the Roboard website and the Processor technical Information pertinent to your needs.

Regards
Pedro

[PedroR]

Hi ozzfiddler

The eBox is identified as an i586 and from the screenshot we have at an early post in this thread we can see it lacks SSE and SSE2 support which limits it's capabilities for multimedia.

In addition the VGA silicon bilt onto the SoC is a fairly standard VGA card with little to no 3D acceleration as far as I can tell.

We believe this is mostly why streaming on the eBox works but is not very fluid.

What are the symptoms you're experiencing with the streaming from ABC? (I suspect the low frame rate...)

With regards to sound, can you confirm you've updated your BIOS to v A61 and also the location where you've obtained the Sound Drivers?
With that information, we may be able to ask the manufacturer for more details about the issue.

FYI the "bigger borther" of the 3350MX, the 3310MX-H is on its way to our warehouse. The 3310MX uses the Vortex86MX+ processor (the next generation of the one used in the 3350) offering improved performance (don't be fooled by the number; the 3310MX is more powerful than the 3350).

Regards
Pedro.

[gordonjcp]

Thanks for the links - with a bit of faffing I've got Ubuntu 10.04 to work at least a bit as described in my previous post. I'm using a Sandisk class 10 16G card, which has sped things up considerably.

I'd need to compile a kernel, because the one in the Debian package is somewhat Debian-specific - they do things The Debian Way, and that doesn't apply to other distros. Furthermore, it is only 2.6.34 which is well over a year old!

This is the problem with 10.04, many of the packages are unusably old now and for the job I had in mind for the ebox I need fairly recent versions of most of the packages. Even Ubuntu 11.04 isn't nearly up to date enough.

[ozfiddler]

Hi Pedro,

"Not very fluid" would be a very generous description. It jumps about 5 seconds at a time and shows me a series of still images. I downloaded all the drivers from the robosavvy link but I haven't updated the BIOS yet. Would that help? I thought it was mainly just to address the reset button problem.

One other thing... it's a sensitive little bugger isn't it! I moved the mouse to a different USB socket and it wouldn't work. Also bought a different keyboard and that wouldn't work either, even in the same USB socket. I've just reinstalled XP with all the peripherals in their correct spots and it seems happy now. My MP3 power supply is enough to power it (1A) but the Navman one won't do the job (it says "up to 1A"). I'd like to find a 2A supply but from my searching that doesn't seem all that easy. It might be good idea if the supplier could offer a suitable power supply as an optional extra.

[PedroR]

Hi ozzfiddler

Firstly with regards to updating the BIOS this is something we recommend that ALL customers do because the early batches of the 3350MX came with a very old BIOS version ("beta" I believe).

With regards to your issues with "fluidity", 0.2fps is really slow... On our tests on Ubuntu 10.04 and using a Class 2 Lexar 4Gb SD card we managed to watch Youtube videos at a rate of 2fps aproximately.

We have since received Class 10 Cards from Transcend but haven't tested them yet.

I believe the achilles heel of the Vortex86 processors is FPU performance (and the lack of SSE).
These two are very important when processing compressed video streams.
FPU is present of Vortex86 processors and is improving in each revision but compared to Intel it's still significantly behind.
(the latest revison - Vortex86MX+ - has an FPU benchmark close to AMD Gecode, the processor used in NAO; still they're both significantly behind Atom)


With regards to your issues with the USB peripherals we haven't tested a broad range of hardware with it but everything that we've tested has worked.
I would assume these may be related to either BIOS or power supply but I we'd definitely be interested in knowing more.

We are aware of customers who experience, for example, a reset, continuous reboots or inability to boot when using certain USB adapters, especially when the peripherals connected draw large amounts of power. What we've learned is that the USB PSU needs to be able to supply a very constant 5V (and hold the 5V if there is a peak in current when you plug in a device for example) and supply up to 2As depending on the peripherals connected.

With regards to finding a power supply, we know USB PSUs rated 5V, 2A are still hard to find but we're on the lookout for them.
The manufacturer does not supply them (we've checked) but from our investigations, the best way to search for USB adapters with these specs is to go on ebay and search for "ipad 2 charger". (it needs to be ipad 2).

Apparently iPad 2 chargers are rated 5V 2As. We have found a couple of suppliers for these but unfortunately they're only manufacturing with US plugs at the moment. We expect this to change in the near future with the increase in adoption of iPad 2s.

Please let us know about your progress as we'd be interested to know more about it

Regards
Pedro

[gordonjcp]

I've found my HTC Desire charger runs it perfectly, but the (apparently) 1A charger for my PS3 controllers doesn't even let it turn on.

If anyone's incredibly interested I'll hook up the storage 'scope and a current shunt, and see exactly how the current varies during bootup.

[ozfiddler]

A bit more progress... I now have a Netcomm Wireless N150 USB adapter working to connect the eBox to my network.

Thanks for the tip re charger - will look out for an ipad 2 one.

[ozfiddler]

More progress!! I have now successfully set up remote access to the eBox through my wireless network. So this post is being made from my PC but it is going via the eBox's browser. This means I can basically do away with the screen, keyboard and mouse on the eBox and just work everything from my PC. This will free up some USB sockets for other things (like a webcam).

So, I just need to get an independent power supply now and I will have an eBox that is free to roam.

[siempre.aprendiendo]

Searching an easy way to power it I have find these external batteries:

[Added] Voltaic v39 seems better:

Battery Specifications
Output: 5.5V, 600 mA and 5V, 2A (two output ports)
Input: 5-12V, up to 2A
Maximum Output Power: 10 Watts
Output Capacity: 11,600 mAh

Charge Time: From 8 Watts solar in 10 hours direct sun, 2A USB Port 5-6 hours
Battery Type: Lithium Polymer
Protection: Short Circuit, Over Charge, Over Discharge, Over Current, Over Temperature

Weight: 10.5 Oz (300g)
Dimensions: 4" x 4 1/4" x 3/4" (104 x 107 x 19 mm)
Charge Display: LEDs light sequentially when charging .
Capacity Display: 1 light < 25%, 2 lights < 50%, 3 lights <75> 75% full

Primo Power Core
Primo Power Core Specifcations

Model Number: PRIMO-CORE-SP
Battery Capacity: 8200 mAh
Power Output: DC 5V@2.1A, 12V@2A
Power Input: DC 9V@1A
AC Adapter: 100v to 240v AC Adapter. USA, UK and EU outlet types available.
Dimensions: L 130mm x W 75mm x 18mm
Weight: 233 g / 8.2 oz

"DealExtreme"

- Capacity: 4000mAh
- Input: 5V/1A
- Output: 5V/2A
- Comes with USB cable & USB male to female adapter cable
- Item: 4000mAh Rechargeable External Battery with USB Cable - White
- Dimensions: 4.29 in x 2.32 in x 0.67 in (10.9 cm x 5.9 cm x 1.7 cm)
- Weight: 3.99 oz (113 g)

[ozfiddler]

Thanks for the battery links! They look very interesting and I've ordered the second one which seems too cheap to be true but worth a try I suppose (free postage to anywhere in the world!). I'll let you know how it goes.

[bmc]

Has anybody put together a laundry list of step-by-step instructions that it is necessary to follow to get the current best Ubuntu installation working on the ebox 3350? Something like:

1) Download Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, burn to USB and install on ebox
2) Download this optimised kernel from here xxx
3) Install optimised kernel as follows:
etc...

I'm about to start going through this process so a list like that would be very useful. If not then I could attempt to start one, it would be useful if people from Robosavvy could then maintain and improve it as new information becomes available from DMP, etc.

Also, it would be useful if people could post example benchmark results (with a description of how they were acquired) for their ebox system that they deem to be running well. That way people could see if their system was performing as well as possible or if there was room for improvement.

Thanks.

[PedroR]

Hi dmc

If you read back on this thread you will find our post (from RobOSavvy) explaining our experience and how we got ubuntu 10.04 installed and working (including links to the appropriate kernel and how to install it). (the particular post is this one http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... rt=0#31636 on the first page of this thread).

I also recommend you read the rest of the thread as there are other tips including upgrading the BIOS (if you don't have the latest version) and information about SD cards which significantly impact performance of eBox.

All this information has alreayd been posted on this thread.

Regards
Pedro.

[bmc]

Hi Pedro,

Ok, I was just checking if there was a document somewhere that summarises everything in this thread so far, it appears not so I'll put one together myself based on all the info here.

Regarding the SD card, could you for instance post some benchmark results on what performance you're getting from your Transcend cards please? I have a class 10 card from this company: http://www.mymemory.co.uk/ it's not one of the big brands, but it is class 10. So I'm just trying to determine whether to get another class 10 from someone like Sandisk instead, but if I could have a point of reference to compare my current card against then that would be useful.

1 other thing, does the DMP kernel offer any performance improvements or does it just provide the correct Ethernet drivers, I don't really need the Ethernet so I may skip this step if that's the case.

Thanks.

[PedroR]

Hi

We haven't really ran benchmarks on different cards yet.

When you boot from the Ubuntu CD you can run proper benchmarks on the card to check if the SD card is meeting the Class 10 standards. (ie the 10Mb/s).

With regards to DMP kernel, we strongly encourage customers to use it as it implements a lot of the processor features including Ethernet AND Audio.

There are also some specific twists in the way IDE is handled (due tot he use of the SD card) but I am not aware of all the improvements that these kernels bring.
However, given this is a very specific architecture (SoC), our recommendation is to always use DMP kernels.

If you're able to compile all the info on a document you are very welcome
At the moment this thread is our best source of information.

Regards
Pedro

[eried]

I tried 3 sd, and they all look working pretty much the same with Windows XP.

1) Lexar Platinum II 8gb, SDHC 100x, Class 6
2) A-Team, 8gb, Class 10
3) Generic fake 'sandisk' 16 gb (Class 6?) Microsd with adapter

Windows XP starts very fast (28 secs until password logon, probably 1 minute to finish desktop loading), but every 'sd' access is slow (like opening the browser).

I don't see any difference between those. The fastest one was the A-Team (18 mb/s) in AIDA, but 1.5 ms access, and the Lexar was 17 mb/s with 0.8 ms access time.