The KHR-1HV Chronicles

[wintermute]

In another forum, I stated my intention to buy the lotsa-bang-for-the-buck RoboPhilo. My logic was sound, but I've decided not to buy one after all. Instead, I'm 98% certain I'm going to buy a KHR-1HV. True, it's triple the cost of the RP kit and it has one less DOF, but I know I'll be a lot happier with it. Like the RP, the 1HV has leg rotation, a feature I insist my robot have so that it can step-turn like a human instead of using a slide-turn. As for the construction, no comparison there; everything about the Kondo robot is more robust, particularly the servos. Then there's the aesthetics, which are admittedly subjective, but I like the looks of the 1HV better than the RP. My final reason for switching: I acquired a sum of money that I hadn't been expecting, and it will just about cover the 1HV's cost.

On the other hand, I also really like the Manoi, but by the time leg rotation is added to the tab it's out of my budget, unless another windfall drops into my lap. The 1HV seems like a solid choice, given my criteria. It'll be my luck that a next-gen model will be announced immediately after I get one, but I guess that's always a risk. (However, I wonder how far off those next-gen robots are -- anyone care to venture a guess?) At any rate, there's a strong likelihood I'll be calling this section of the forum home, and so I changed my avatar accordingly.

[tempusmaster]

In another forum, I stated my intention to buy the lotsa-bang-for-the-buck RoboPhilo. My logic was sound, but I've decided not to buy one after all. Instead, I'm 98% certain I'm going to buy a KHR-1HV. True, it's triple the cost of the RP kit and it has one less DOF, but I know I'll be a lot happier with it. Like the RP, the 1HV has leg rotation, a feature I insist my robot have so that it can step-turn like a human instead of using a slide-turn. As for the construction, no comparison there; everything about the Kondo robot is more robust, particularly the servos. Then there's the aesthetics, which are admittedly subjective, but I like the looks of the 1HV better than the RP. My final reason for switching: I acquired a sum of money that I hadn't been expecting, and it will just about cover the 1HV's cost.

If you have the money to spend, then you will be more satisfied with the KHR-1HV, at least from the basic kit and functionality perspective. The RP has great price/performance at under $500, but isn't intended to compete directly with the >$1000 bots.

On the other hand, I also really like the Manoi, but by the time leg rotation is added to the tab it's out of my budget, unless another windfall drops into my lap.

Neither of the Manoi's (AT01 and PF01) have leg rotation the way that it's implemented in the RP and KHR-1HV. The PF01 is a straight 17 DOF design. The AT01 has options to add an additional DOF to each arm, plus an additional hip DOF that adds a hip servo to rotate the body, not each leg individually.

The 1HV seems like a solid choice, given my criteria.

It's a great choice, though make sure you review all the info on this forum in detail. It does have some limitations if you want to do a lot of software development or other advanced hacking. But, the base kit is solid.

It'll be my luck that a next-gen model will be announced immediately after I get one, but I guess that's always a risk. (However, I wonder how far off those next-gen robots are -- anyone care to venture a guess?)

My guess - we'll see more bots coming with lower price points - similar to the RP, before we see bots appearing with more advanced functionality. You're probably pretty safe for the next 6 to 12 months. After that, who knows? It's anybody's guess.

At any rate, there's a strong likelihood I'll be calling this section of the forum home, and so I changed my avatar accordingly.

Cool. Welcome, no matter which section of the forum you end up frequenting.

[wintermute]

Neither of the Manoi's (AT01 and PF01) have leg rotation the way that it's implemented in the RP and KHR-1HV. The PF01 is a straight 17 DOF design. The AT01 has options to add an additional DOF to each arm, plus an additional hip DOF that adds a hip servo to rotate the body, not each leg individually.

I could've sworn I read about someone adding leg rotation to an AT01, but maybe I didn't read carefully. Either that or the crack pipe is taking its toll.

It's a great choice, though make sure you review all the info on this forum in detail. It does have some limitations if you want to do a lot of software development or other advanced hacking. But, the base kit is solid.

Yes, I've been researching the articles here. This place is a treasure trove of info; I hope to add to it. The main limitation of the Kondo robots seems to be the HTH software, is that correct? My ultimate goal is to have a Gumstix Verdex XL6P orchestrate movements via the RCB-3, in which case I'll write the higher-level routines in C. Also looking at utilizing open-source neural net software. Ambitious goals, to be sure, but it beats tagging bridges and overpasses with graffiti.

My guess - we'll see more bots coming with lower price points - similar to the RP, before we see bots appearing with more advanced functionality. You're probably pretty safe for the next 6 to 12 months. After that, who knows? It's anybody's guess.

That's very reassuring. I'm a little gun-shy due to my Aibo experience, in which a new model was announced almost immediately after I bought one. I appreciate the info, tempusmaster.

[Droid Works]

Comparing the 1HV and Robophilo is like comparing apples and oranges. 2 completely different bot. The Robophilo is not meant to compete with bots like the 1HV. The Robophilo is a low cost beginner bot. The 1HV is a high performance advanced bot. The Robophilo is a great beginner bot but if you are planing to compete and are not a beginner I would go with the 1HV.

[wintermute]

Comparing the 1HV and Robophilo is like comparing apples and oranges.

It's a common misconception that apples and oranges cannot be compared. They certainly can. They're equivalent in cost, size, shape, popularity, and food group. The color of their skins are even adjacent on the color wheel. They positively invite comparison, in fact. An apple and a grape might be a better analogy. And even then you have similarities. Comparing things, noting their strengths and weaknesses, is only human. Next, I plan to compare the 1HV with a tin robot I bought at Hammacher Schlemmer for $15.

[Droid Works]

Are you serious..lmao

[wintermute]

One thing I don't like about the 1HV is its zig-zag legs, looking from the side, due to the L-shaped servo brackets at the knees, a characteristic of all the Kondo models. Further, the manner in which leg rotation is implemented gives the HV1 a "high-waisted" appearance. That said, the 1HV's jutting knee and unrealistically high waist are not deal-breakers for me. Other robots may have straighter legs and lower waists, but I still gotta go with the 1HV. Its servos have decent torque ratings and the robot has those extra two degrees of freedom. On balance, I like the looks of the 1HV, pointy kneecaps and high waist notwithstanding.

[tempusmaster]

One thing I don't like about the 1HV is its zig-zag legs, looking from the side, due to the L-shaped servo brackets at the knees, a characteristic of all the Kondo models.

It goes back to the original KHR-1 design.

Further, the manner in which leg rotation is implemented gives the HV1 a "high-waisted" appearance.

That came from the way they hacked the extra servos into the KHR-1 conversion kit to give it the added DOF. The KHR-2 kept the same basic geometry as the KHR-1, and then the KHR-1HV just followed along the same path.

That said, the 1HV's jutting knee and unrealistically high waist are not deal-breakers for me.

I tend to agree with you, though in my case it might have to do with the fact that I have extremely long legs and a shorter than average torso.

Other robots may have straighter legs and lower waists, but I still gotta go with the 1HV. Its servos have decent torque ratings and the robot has those extra two degrees of freedom. On balance, I like the looks of the 1HV, pointy kneecaps and high waist notwithstanding.

Just out of curiosity, which robots appeal to you in terms of looks/geometry/style?

I'm not being critical, just curious.

[wintermute]

Just out of curiosity, which robots appeal to you in terms of looks/geometry/style?

I'm not being critical, just curious.

Aesthetics are so subjective. I think the RN-1 has a lot going for it, aesthetically speaking. If Hitec were to come out with an RN-2 with 19 DOF and beefier servos, I might jump ship. Especially if they ditched the RN-1's proportionally too-small cheap plastic Jet Ranger pinhead -- not that Kondo's small servo head is much better. When it comes to aesthetics, the Manoi models rule the kit market, although that's an unfair comparison. None of the shells designed for the KHR series really grab me, but perhaps one will come along that will. The topic of robot aesthetics is generally mentioned only in passing on this forum, but I give it a lot of consideration. I probably have company in this. You are among them, I think -- though we might quibble about specific aspects of aesthetics, subjective as they are.

[tempusmaster]

Just out of curiosity, which robots appeal to you in terms of looks/geometry/style?

I'm not being critical, just curious.

Aesthetics are so subjective. I think the RN-1 has a lot going for it, aesthetically speaking.

Agree totally. From a style perspective it's one of the best, though it has other limitations.

If Hitec were to come out with an RN-2 with 19 DOF and beefier servos, I might jump ship.

I keep waiting for a RN2, but so far no joy...

Especially if they ditched the RN-1's proportionally too-small cheap plastic Jet Ranger pinhead -- not that Kondo's small servo head is much better.

The basic design difference is that the RN1 head is a 'completed' product while the KHR heads were only intended to be the underlying structure. It's interesting to see how the Japanese often spend a lot of time on the external design - adding costumes, shells, etc. while the Westerners don't seem to focus on that aspect of the hobby.

One of my Japanese friends is fond of saying he enjoys his robot four times - building it, programming it, decorating it, and photographing it. It's part of the reason they are willing to pay more of a premium price for the kits.

When it comes to aesthetics, the Manoi models rule the kit market, although that's an unfair comparison. None of the shells designed for the KHR series really grab me, but perhaps one will come along that will.

Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The Japanese always want to show their own craftsmanship and creativity by making unique shells - so a stock shell doesn't sell well unless it's a Gundam type character.

The topic of robot aesthetics is generally mentioned only in passing on this forum, but I give it a lot of consideration.

Me too.

I probably have company in this. You are among them, I think -- though we might quibble about specific aspects of aesthetics, subjective as they are.

I'm happy to quibble anytime.

[plingboot]

If we're having a jovial discussion about aesthetics, I'd have to chip in with my 2penneth for the '1HV.

I'm definitely in with the group who enjoy the hobby for 'the build', 'the programming', 'the tinkering' and 'the photography'

I previously owned an RN1 and when it wasn't being used it had pride of place on a shelf in our lounge as a piece of contemporary ornamentation - which everyone noticed and commented on. Even the lady wife was happy to have him in there.

However, as soon as i saw the '1HV i knew i had to have it - though it took a good while to save the funds. The '1HV has a much more humanoid appearance and looks like a serious piece of robotic equipment. I don't mind the high waist at all, but do agree that the knees do look a little odd - though it's not a deal breaker. The RN1, while still being a great looking 'bot looks too much like a toy for me - a technical step up from a robospien.

I really like the 'junk yard' vibe i get from the '1HV and even with the ropey motion files i have his extra DOF is, for me, so much better than the RN1.

If you look at my other thread there's a pic of him - you can see i've done a bit of work on the parts covers - i added industrial yellow chevrons then distressed them with wire wool to give him a worn industrial look.

I'd quite like to try some of the Japanese body kit's i've seen, but would only want to add minimal items - maybe shin and forearm guards, a slightly mod'ed chest cover and possibly something suitably 'industrial' for the head servo.

if i had the money (and after swapping out all the servos for top quality ones which don't die so quickly ) i'd quite like to build a second '1HV as a 'shelf queen' and give him the full gundam treatment

[wintermute]

The RN1, while still being a great looking 'bot looks too much like a toy for me - a technical step up from a robospien.

Hmmm... The RN-1 looks like a well-conceived design to me, aside from the aforementioned diminutive toy head. But I guess that's what makes a horserace.

if i had the money (and after swapping out all the servos for top quality ones which don't die so quickly ) i'd quite like to build a second '1HV as a 'shelf queen' and give him the full gundam treatment

A gay Gundam? Well, I guess it was inevitable.

[plingboot]

shelf queen is an RC term which refers (for example) to a RC rock crawler which has been kitted out with the finest hop-ups/parts but will only ever spend it's life sitting on a shelf looking good.

nowt to do with being gay.

[wintermute]

shelf queen is an RC term which refers (for example) to a RC rock crawler which has been kitted out with the finest hop-ups/parts but will only ever spend it's life sitting on a shelf looking good.

nowt to do with being gay.

I figured as much, but your use of the masculine pronoun following the term made it impossible to resist the merry jape. But while speaking of gay robots, have you noticed that Takahashi-san's Chroino completely ignores the FT when they're together? It has to make you wonder. Not that there's anything wrong with a robot being gay. I, for one, welcome our gay robot overlords.

[wintermute]

And while we're on the subject of aesthetics...

The 1HV's (and 2HV's) resin brackets suck. Yeah, I know -- they're strong and light, but let's face it, aluminum brackets would look better and would probably last longer. If you ask me, Kondo took a step backward from the KHR-1, bracket-wise. Still, the cheap-looking plastic brackets are not a deal-breaker.