KHR2HV - has anyone tried one yet?

[TinMan]

Hi, I'm a definate newbie here but thought i would jump in with both feet and buy a new KHR2HV.

If the wife finds out, i'm dead meat!!!.

I'm eargerly awaiting it's arrival, but thought i'd ask if anyone had any advice regarding building, testing and upgrading the Kondo range. I'm keen to expand on the basic design and fit some gyros , claws and wireless control upgrades.

Any suggestions..

[Jerry]

Just purchased a HKR-2. Arrived Monday. There is good news and bad news..
The Bad:
Everything is in Japanese - no english, no janglish. Just Japanese Characters.
The Software, and Acrobat manuals won't even load without the correct character set loaded in the PC, but there's only about 15 possibilities, so I'm working through that. Still can't access the manuals, but once I ID the correct character set, I'll be good to go. I'll post a link to the character set up here once I ID it. I'll get that done this weekend.

The good
I have contacts for japanese translation, and am working on getting the translation done. When it's done, I'll happily post it up here. We should be starting work on the translation this weekend.
More good.
Pictures on the box make install of the "nuts-n-bolts" pretty easy, you can even ID the correct screws to use in all the right places. Won't help you with electronics or adjustments though. I'm waiting until I havve some manual pages to work through. At these prices, it wouldn't do to make a bad mistake!

So- keep checking, I promised a manual up here, and I'll do my best to get it up here, starting this weekend. In the meantime, post a private message up here and tell me where you got yours, OK?

[TinMan]

Hi Jerry,

Sorry mate i thought i'd sent you a private message but having checked my sent box i apparently haven't sent anything.

Anyway i ordered my KHR-2HV from robosavy and i just found that all the documentation will be in Japanese as well. I'm hoping that i should get it within the next week or so and i hope we can colaraberate on the construction and documentation for anyone else that chooses to follow our path.

So once again apologies for the late reply, but i thought i had.

Keep posting and i'll make sure i keep up with the replies. looks lke there aren't many posts out there for the KHR-2HV, but i'm hoping to change that in the near future.

regards TinMan

[tempusmaster]

looks lke there aren't many posts out there for the KHR-2HV

There aren't many KHR-2HV posts here in Japan yet either, but that will change pretty quickly. The kit has only been available for a few weeks, but is selling really well. Several of the ROBO-ONE competitors have posted on their sites and forums about buying one, including Asurada-san (Rayered-X).

The RCB-3J controller is very different both functionally and conceptually, so it will take folks a little while before they come up to speed. Sugiura-san (Dynamizer) who's a whiz with the RCB-1 and Motion Processor, has been experimenting with the RCB-3 and is really excited about what he thinks he can do with it.

Give it a month or so and we'll start seeing a lot of KHR-2HV activity. There will probably be a number of them entered for the ROBO-ONE J event in August and definitely for the ROBO-ONE 10 in early September.

[Jerry]

Thanks for the follow up posts. I've made some progress...

OK - got the manual and software working, and started the translation, but there's still a long way to go. Stupid as I am, I tried a bunch of character sets, and found out that the problem was that Windows couldn't recognize the file because the name got trashed during load (due to the japanese translation) Simple enough fix (thanks to my son), simply rename the file and presto!

Use windows Control Panel->Regional and Language Options->Languages->Install Files for East Asian languages, and you'll get the correct Japanese character set. Then the manual will display correctly. Software is still not translating right, it looks like parts of it are Japanese coded, and parts of it expect Japanses file structures. Still working on that. What is coded in the app woks ok, and part of it is Japanese and part english. (Wierd, they coded buttons and controls in english, but everything else is katakana)

Assembly will be pretty straight forward, there are good pictures and it explains everything well, but the calibration and powerup sequences are the real challenge. I'm learning a lot about translation, because the manual uses Katakana for most of the assembly, which is all phoenetic, so the translator needs a good technical background to be successful. For example, Sah-Boa-Lee-Dah (Servo Lead) or Lay-Due-Join-Toe (leg joint). Translator got the phoenetic, I had to supply the actual word. The Startup part is all Hiragana or Kanji (I'm not sure if I'm saying or spelling this correctly), which has no direct translations, so it'll take some time. If anyone wants a copy of the Japanese PDF, I can put it on an FTP site, let me know.

If anyone has source code for Heart-to-Heart, I can translate that into english pretty easily (it is all Katakana) provided it VB6 or C++ or something I'm familiar with. (I'm guessing it's one of those). Also if anyone has a link to the manual in english, I'd love to find it. Per my supplier, Kondo will have one "real soon now"..

Also, if anyone has any info on the controller? Love to know what's in there....

I'm going to focus on the startup part of the manual for now. Hope to have something next weekend.

J

[TinMan]

Hi Jerry,

You don't hang around do you??

I'm still waiting for my KHR-2HV to arrive, but i've been told it should be here by the end of the week. So i'm hoping you've made some more progress by then.

can you send me a link to your PDF so i can have a look and maybe decipher some of it before mine arrives..

I have found a site that advertises the manuals in english and japanese but they aren't answering any of my emails.

http://www.nodna.com/shop.365.0.html

I think that tempusmaster is also after this info. I did find another site that had english manuals but have lost the info somewhere.

Good luck with the translation and if there's anything you need a hand with , just ask.

regards TinMan

[TinMan]

Hi Jerry,
if you post me link to your PDF i can send it to this site below who will translate the doc in HTML

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/a ... tools.html

It's then just a case of running it through google and let them do all the hard work.

What do you think???

[Jerry]

Hi there. You can see the manual here:

http://www.clanparker.com/temp/khr-2hv.pdf

(to Moderator - sorry in advance if this violates rules, just pull and let me know if it's a problem)

Don't know 'bout using google to translate, but it might work. We cut-n-pasted some Japanese into online translation engines - not very good results, but I'm certainly into trying

[tempusmaster]

Hi Jerry,

I have found a site that advertises the manuals in english and japanese but they aren't answering any of my emails.

http://www.nodna.com/shop.365.0.html

I just checked, and the nodna site says:

Be aware that there are only a few accessories currently available. Be also aware it is a new product and there is no or only very few english documentation! You cannot use the 6V servos or electrical components, sensors of the KHR-1 for the KHR-2HV.

This noDNA might be able to help.

I think that tempusmaster is also after this info. I did find another site that had english manuals but have lost the info somewhere.

I did manage to find one other site so far that mentioned English manuals for the KHR-2HV, but when I emailed them the response was that the manuals and software are still being translated by their source for the kits in Japan. They're currently being told the translation will be finished around the end of June.

[tempusmaster]

Hi there. You can see the manual here:

http://www.clanparker.com/temp/khr-2hv.pdf

(to Moderator - sorry in advance if this violates rules, just pull and let me know if it's a problem)

Don't know 'bout using google to translate, but it might work. We cut-n-pasted some Japanese into online translation engines - not very good results, but I'm certainly into trying

Thanks. That's a big help.

The manual is a huge improvement over the KHR-1 manual. I love the photos, the little highlighted robot icon at the top, and lots of small features like the alignment marks on the frame parts (legs). Assembly should be much, much easier.

Is this the only documentation? It stops right when things just start to get interesting. I was hoping there would be much more on the RCB-3J, especially using the software and creating motions/scenarios/etc.

[tempusmaster]

Don't know 'bout using google to translate, but it might work. We cut-n-pasted some Japanese into online translation engines - not very good results, but I'm certainly into trying

A lot depends on the writing style. Some people are very easy to translate and understand, while others are a real PITB.

The online translation engines produce results of varying quality depending on the original writer's style. It's just my personal experience, but Google's translation engine seems to produce pretty poor results. Babelfish has some problems, but usually does much better than Google for technical subjects.

One approach you might try is to post the converted html on a dummy page on your blog or website, then use either the Babelfish or Google engine to translate the whole page at one time rather than doing a cut and paste bit by bit.

Another 'gottcha' is that the Japanese text in documentation is often broken into separate lines for formatting reasons or to fit captions under photos or illustrations. This plays havoc with the translation engine since it wants to see complete word groups or sentences in order to do it's work properly. I usually have to edit the Japanese text back into it's proper order/format before I can get something sensible out of the translation engines.

[Jerry]

Hi Tempusmaster; Thanks for your feedback.
Unfortunately, while the manual is really, really good (I can build the robot from the pictures), it is unfortunate that it's all there is. Nothing about the controller, very little about Heart-to-Heart.

Your suggestion about converting to a web site and then submitting for translation has some merit - I'll try that as time allows, it might be fun to see the results. Working with the translator directly has been pretty fun too! Are you in Japan? You seem to know who the players are!!!

I am very excited that the sales have been so good - that means that the blogs will get populated soon. For anyone else reading this thread - My supplier told me today that they are down to just a few units left, and they aren't expecting another manufacturing run till after September. He also said they were quite suprised at how fast they went through them. My serial number is under 20, so I got in early. I guess you should either get yours right away, or plan on waiting for a little while.....

[onesandzeros]

Its good to see that the units are moving fast.

I might have to get a KHR-2 seeing as there is so much activity unlike the khr-1 with crap software.
Looking forward to seeing what kool things people will be able to do

[tempusmaster]

Hi Tempusmaster; Thanks for your feedback.

You're very welcome. It's my pleasure.

Unfortunately, while the manual is really, really good (I can build the robot from the pictures), it is unfortunate that it's all there is. Nothing about the controller, very little about Heart-to-Heart.

It does look like you could build just from the pictures. There should be something on the software though. The KHR-1 had two manuals, and the KHR-2HV with the RCB-3J is even more complex (and powerful). Perhaps they just haven't released the software manual yet.

Your suggestion about converting to a web site and then submitting for translation has some merit - I'll try that as time allows, it might be fun to see the results.

I've used that technique when I haven't had access to my regular translation software and it works reasonably well. There are a lot of other tricks like breaking up the phrases and doing a little manual pre-parsing, but they require a pretty good working knowledge of Japanese to be useful.

Working with the translator directly has been pretty fun too!

It can be, if you like wordplay. It can be hell though if you're working under a deadline....

Are you in Japan?

Yes. I've lived here for about 16 years, off and on, since 1982.

You seem to know who the players are!!!

Yes. I know some of them fairly well.

I am very excited that the sales have been so good - that means that the blogs will get populated soon. For anyone else reading this thread - My supplier told me today that they are down to just a few units left, and they aren't expecting another manufacturing run till after September. He also said they were quite suprised at how fast they went through them. My serial number is under 20, so I got in early. I guess you should either get yours right away, or plan on waiting for a little while.....

There was tremendous interest at the KHR-1 event, and there's been a lot of promotion in the Japanese robot related press. The KHR-2HV is going to do very well.

[noDNA]

I have purchased the KHR-2HV from Yamasaki San who was on our booth at RoboCup2006 in Bremen bringing the KHR-2HV from Japan.

The Body is a bit higher than the KHR-1 due to the new brackets. (They are available as spare parts for anyone who wants to "update" the KHR-1.)

Basically it is the same robot. The benefit is the new RCB-3 board with analog in. The disadvantage is the 10,8 V mini battery with 300mAH. I needed to buy a 220V charger for 70 EUR because 9 cells are very uncommon. The included charger is - again - only 110V. As soon as my charger is being shipped I can tell how long the KHR-2HV will run with the standard battery. There is an 800mAH 10,8V battery available in the shop, I believe we need this.

I have the 12 V power supply unit which comes handy but has cables to the KHR-2HV of course and they are no fun while he is doing siderolls.

Perfomance is similar to KHR-1, the legs move better, he can make bigger steps. They come closer to the body when standing up, this is good.
Other than that I do not see a big difference. Is more an update than a big release.

My robot did some hundred siderolls on the show and the servos are shaking a lot. Yamasaki said this is due to the high gain he has set in the servo manager for all servos to have highest torque. Hmm. Looks insane and I will reduce gain in the next days to see if shaking disappears.

Servos did not get hot at all, even being performed a whole day.
One plastic gear broke, the main gear. Luckily there is a plastic gear replacement kit. No other damages except some scratches on the chest because of falling. I think this is a very good performance.

One other thing is, the Chest looks similar to the Chest extension of the KHR-1. This is good because when he falls to the front he lands on his chest instead on his head. My KHR-1 lands on the head (face) when falling to the front.

KHR-2HV has an on/off switch. Finally.

KHR-2HV has much better mounts for the cables, very nice, very professional looking. (Still no bus like the Bioloid robot kit)

So, besides the shaking problem and small battery I start liking the KHR-2HV. Now if the manual and new Heart2Heart would be in english language, I would be happy. Limor is already working hard to translate the Heart2Heart,
regards
noDNA