New Nova, totally stumped.
New Nova, totally stumped.
by Guest
Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:24 am
Got a new RN yesterday and spent the evening putting all together. Pretty straightforward till it was time to turn it on for the first time.
Upon the initial power on, one leg straightens into what I assume for be for a standing position, while the other had the foot picked up and the knee cocked. Imagine standing on one leg, and that's pretty much the position the RN would assume, if it could actually stand that way. Both arms ended up straight out to the side but rotated so the "palms" face to the rear.
I've checked, double,triple,quad and-whatever-comes-after-that checked that I have all the servos in the correct spots, and I've checked that many times again that I have all the servos plugged into the correct positions on the board. I've gone over all this at least a dozen times. Now...
If I bring up the screen for setting the zero point my RN's position is nowhere near what is on the screen, and if I try adjust servos I've got HUGE problems.
Some servos I try to adjust (on the screen) move the wrong servo on the robot. Some servos I try to adjust don't respond at all.
Here's the breakdown:
Servo Adjusted (on screen) Servo moved Servo Pin connection
0 0 0
1 1 1
2 2 2
3 none 3
4 3 4
6 none 6
7 6 7
8 none 8
18 none 18
19 none 19
20 19 20
21 20 21
22 21 22
12 none 12
13 12 13
14 13 14
As I said, I've checked the connections all up and down and they are correct. All the servos occupy their correct positions on the bot, assuming they were all stickered properly anyway.
Looking at the list it would appear that some of the servos are off by one position in their connection order.
For example, if I connect servo 14 to pin 13 and servo 13 to pin 12, I can control them via the zero point control screen. But if I try to adjust servos 3 and 4 in the same fashion, they cease to function at all.
I tried erasing the bots memory, doing a power on and going straight to the zero point screen, but it had no affect.
At this point I am TOTALLY at a loss as to how to proceed, or what the problem may be. I don't want to just start moving wires around willy nilly for fear I might smoke something.
Any input is MORE than welcome.
Upon the initial power on, one leg straightens into what I assume for be for a standing position, while the other had the foot picked up and the knee cocked. Imagine standing on one leg, and that's pretty much the position the RN would assume, if it could actually stand that way. Both arms ended up straight out to the side but rotated so the "palms" face to the rear.
I've checked, double,triple,quad and-whatever-comes-after-that checked that I have all the servos in the correct spots, and I've checked that many times again that I have all the servos plugged into the correct positions on the board. I've gone over all this at least a dozen times. Now...
If I bring up the screen for setting the zero point my RN's position is nowhere near what is on the screen, and if I try adjust servos I've got HUGE problems.
Some servos I try to adjust (on the screen) move the wrong servo on the robot. Some servos I try to adjust don't respond at all.
Here's the breakdown:
Servo Adjusted (on screen) Servo moved Servo Pin connection
0 0 0
1 1 1
2 2 2
3 none 3
4 3 4
6 none 6
7 6 7
8 none 8
18 none 18
19 none 19
20 19 20
21 20 21
22 21 22
12 none 12
13 12 13
14 13 14
As I said, I've checked the connections all up and down and they are correct. All the servos occupy their correct positions on the bot, assuming they were all stickered properly anyway.
Looking at the list it would appear that some of the servos are off by one position in their connection order.
For example, if I connect servo 14 to pin 13 and servo 13 to pin 12, I can control them via the zero point control screen. But if I try to adjust servos 3 and 4 in the same fashion, they cease to function at all.
I tried erasing the bots memory, doing a power on and going straight to the zero point screen, but it had no affect.
At this point I am TOTALLY at a loss as to how to proceed, or what the problem may be. I don't want to just start moving wires around willy nilly for fear I might smoke something.
Any input is MORE than welcome.
by gsferrari
Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:30 am
servo stickers are different from the servo numbers unfortunately. There is a separate diagram for the servo numbers when you actually connect the wires to the controller.
You built it in one evening - I guess that in your hurry you may have missed out several crucial steps. There is no way you would have "PASSED" the articulation tests if things were this bad.
Articulation test is where you test the full motion of the servo to see if it matches that in the manual.
I suspect troubleshooting this is going to be a pain if you did what I think you did. If it is a simple controller wire mismatch - then you get away with a little bit of work. If not - everything has gotta come apart again.
STARTING POINT:
Check articulation of the servos first.
Check if all the servos have been connected to the brackets in the correct orientation (the numbers on the servo horn)
Post pictures
You built it in one evening - I guess that in your hurry you may have missed out several crucial steps. There is no way you would have "PASSED" the articulation tests if things were this bad.
Articulation test is where you test the full motion of the servo to see if it matches that in the manual.
I suspect troubleshooting this is going to be a pain if you did what I think you did. If it is a simple controller wire mismatch - then you get away with a little bit of work. If not - everything has gotta come apart again.
STARTING POINT:
Check articulation of the servos first.
Check if all the servos have been connected to the brackets in the correct orientation (the numbers on the servo horn)
Post pictures
Robonova terrorizes the office...coming up!!
by Guest
Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:28 am
gsferrari wrote:servo stickers are different from the servo numbers unfortunately. There is a separate diagram for the servo numbers when you actually connect the wires to the controller.
You built it in one evening - I guess that in your hurry you may have missed out several crucial steps. There is no way you would have "PASSED" the articulation tests if things were this bad.
Articulation test is where you test the full motion of the servo to see if it matches that in the manual.
I suspect troubleshooting this is going to be a pain if you did what I think you did. If it is a simple controller wire mismatch - then you get away with a little bit of work. If not - everything has gotta come apart again.
STARTING POINT:
Check articulation of the servos first.
Check if all the servos have been connected to the brackets in the correct orientation (the numbers on the servo horn)
Post pictures
Yeah, the servo numbering systems is rather, odd, but I understand it. Here's the skinny on what I have in that respect. I am working from English Language Manual V1.00.
In the manual on page 16 is a diagram of the correct servo positions based on their individual stickers. My RN is correct according to this diagram.
On page 42 is another diagram with the servos given some other arbitrary number system, along with their corresponding connection points on the controller board.
The controller has 4 servo pinout "zones" lettered A - D, each with 6 connections. A is numbered 18-23 from the top, B is numbered 12-17 starting from the top, C is numbered 11-6 starting from the top, and D is numbered 5-0 starting from the top. Each servo is connected to it's corresponding pinout based on the numbering system on this page, not based on their stickered numbers. In zones C and D the servo connectors are attached with the signal (grey) wire towards the center of the board and Zone A and B are connected in the same fashion.
I did the range of motion tests as described in the book (the legs need to "squat" as shown on page 24-25 and the arms need to bend up and down through 180 degs as shown on page 36) and I will double check the servo horn orientation, though I'm pretty certain those are correct as well.
As far as pictures go, what exactly do you need pictures of, and I'll get them done.
Thanks for the help here, like I said, I'm pretty stumped at this point.
by bauermech
Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:33 am
Yeah, that sounds odd. can you post a pic of what he looks like turned on in his own little "standard pose". Little fella' has a mind of his own from the sounds of it.
When you replaced the servo horn disks back onto the servos, did you line up hole '1' with the key on the output gear?
When you turn it on, do any of the servos hit any obstacles... like extending to the point they're butt up against a joint or something? The reason I ask is because if they are, I don't need the pics that bad. I don't want you to ruin your bot so soon.
When you replaced the servo horn disks back onto the servos, did you line up hole '1' with the key on the output gear?
When you turn it on, do any of the servos hit any obstacles... like extending to the point they're butt up against a joint or something? The reason I ask is because if they are, I don't need the pics that bad. I don't want you to ruin your bot so soon.
by gsferrari
Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:43 am
Guest - why dont you register and log-in before you post any more. Confusing to have so many Guests around 
Also - where are you from? If you are within 50 miles of me I will be happy to check your RN-1 out in person. The manual is quite misleading in places...which is why I took my time, checked back with robosavvy.com and other websites, compared the paper novel and a pdf in color...The manual shows the left leg while talking about the right lef assembly...
ASININE!! 8O
Go over the whole process again step by step without skipping anything. If you notice anything odd - note it down.
If the "passive" servo articulation test checks out then the next step will be to check the wires again.
If that checks out then we need to start thinking about a warranty or a replacement. I think the place you bought it from will take it back and send you another kit. Could very well be a controller issue if everything else it ok.
Matt - I dont think the horn will go in any other way. There is a small notch that slips over the 1 position on the axle.
Also - where are you from? If you are within 50 miles of me I will be happy to check your RN-1 out in person. The manual is quite misleading in places...which is why I took my time, checked back with robosavvy.com and other websites, compared the paper novel and a pdf in color...The manual shows the left leg while talking about the right lef assembly...
ASININE!! 8O
Go over the whole process again step by step without skipping anything. If you notice anything odd - note it down.
If the "passive" servo articulation test checks out then the next step will be to check the wires again.
If that checks out then we need to start thinking about a warranty or a replacement. I think the place you bought it from will take it back and send you another kit. Could very well be a controller issue if everything else it ok.
Matt - I dont think the horn will go in any other way. There is a small notch that slips over the 1 position on the axle.
Robonova terrorizes the office...coming up!!
by bauermech
Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:24 am
There's a catch to it though.... The gears begin to line up with each other before making contact with the pin. Once you start tightening down on the screw it can be rather difficult to notice the pin sinking into the plastic horn rather than into the groove. ...especially after installing a hundred previously. I know my hand went numb after the first few hours
by Guest
Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:45 am
bauermech wrote:Yeah, that sounds odd. can you post a pic of what he looks like turned on in his own little "standard pose". Little fella' has a mind of his own from the sounds of it.
When you replaced the servo horn disks back onto the servos, did you line up hole '1' with the key on the output gear?
When you turn it on, do any of the servos hit any obstacles... like extending to the point they're butt up against a joint or something? The reason I ask is because if they are, I don't need the pics that bad. I don't want you to ruin your bot so soon.
I was under the impression they would only go on one way since the servo and the horn are "keyed".
When turned on nothing seems to hit. Bear in mind, there is nothing in the controller memory. I erased anything that was in there while I was trying to figure out the problem. The "pose" he assumes comes from when I try to set the zero point. After I open the zero point window and click on "read", he assumes this rather funky pose.
Also keep in mind when you are looking at the pose picture, neither hip joint is working, on the left arm neither the elbow or shoulder work, on the right arm the elbow does not work. Both shoulder rotate servos appear to be working, although the corresponding adjustment on the screen does not necessarily move the proper servo.
The initial position I put him in when powered down, the next pose is after clicking the "read" button in the zero point window.
It's kind of hard to tell from the pic, but the left leg is more or less in the correct position. The right leg on the other hand...the knee is kind of screwy and the ankle is cocked off to the side.
My gut feeling is the controller went south for the winter. The thing that makes me think this is I KNOW these servos are installed and connected per the manual, yet some of them don't move, some move when another servo should actually be moving, etc etc. But I would LOVE to be wrong and have someone say...."It's simple you slack jawed knuckle draggin simian", just do this that and the other and all will be well.
I'm not holding my breath though. 
by Guest
Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:02 am
gsferrari wrote:Guest - why dont you register and log-in before you post any more. Confusing to have so many Guests around
ASININE!! 8O
Go over the whole process again step by step without skipping anything. If you notice anything odd - note it down.
If the "passive" servo articulation test checks out then the next step will be to check the wires again.
If that checks out then we need to start thinking about a warranty or a replacement. I think the place you bought it from will take it back and send you another kit. Could very well be a controller issue if everything else it ok.
Matt - I dont think the horn will go in any other way. There is a small notch that slips over the 1 position on the axle.
I've tried to register, twice now. I know my initial registration is in there somewhere but when I try to log on it says I'm using the incorrect something. I can't figure out if it doesn't like the user name I'm trying to use, or the password. All it says is "Incorrect Login Info!" or something similiar. If I tell the system to resend my password, it asks for my email, I give it, and then it says "password emailed", but I never get anything. I just tried tonight to re-register under a different user name, and it tells me to wait for an email and follow the link. I don't remember if I ever got an email from the first time I tried to register so maybe my initial registration is NOT in there, but I know I tried.
I'm not kidding when I say I've checked, double, triple, quad, etc checked this thing. Short of a total disassembly. I've checked the servo position by sticker number, I've checked the servo connections to the board a gazillion times.
The only possible servo issue I can think of is if I would have the 6 and 9 servos reversed, but I would think wire length would be a dead giveaway.
Unfortunately I'm in Ohio, or "I" would drive to see you. I'm going to try calling HiTec tomorrow and see what they say. If they think it's bad I SURE hope they'd be willing to do a swap, and send me an RTW unit! My fingers would not look forward to doing another one any time soon.
by gsferrari
Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:18 am
This looks like a servo cabling error. It is highly unlikely that there could be such a catastrophic error in the controller hardware. Servo ZERO positions are programmed into a "firmware" type memory. Even if you erase the controller memory - the zeroing information stays. You only clear the NVRAM that contained the program files.
Open up the back and shoot some pictures. Compare your servo connections with these images:
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/1.jpg
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/2.jpg
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/3.jpg
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/4.jpg
If you havent seen this manual before - You can download it here:
http://www.robonova.de/store/down/downl ... Manual.pdf
Matt is in Ohio as well. You may want to ask him if he can look at your RN-1. Perhaps ship it to him. I dont know if he has time...
Head to the nearest hardware store and get one of these. My hands are still in good shape because of this tool...shame...I would have preferred to install Matt's grippers on my body Claws and all
http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGu ... ctID=10952
Open up the back and shoot some pictures. Compare your servo connections with these images:
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/1.jpg
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/2.jpg
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/3.jpg
http://robosavvy.com/Builders/gsferrari/4.jpg
If you havent seen this manual before - You can download it here:
http://www.robonova.de/store/down/downl ... Manual.pdf
Guest wrote:Unfortunately I'm in Ohio, or "I" would drive to see you. I'm going to try calling HiTec tomorrow and see what they say. If they think it's bad I SURE hope they'd be willing to do a swap, and send me an RTW unit! My fingers would not look forward to doing another one any time soon.
Matt is in Ohio as well. You may want to ask him if he can look at your RN-1. Perhaps ship it to him. I dont know if he has time...
Head to the nearest hardware store and get one of these. My hands are still in good shape because of this tool...shame...I would have preferred to install Matt's grippers on my body
Claws and all
http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGu ... ctID=10952
Robonova terrorizes the office...coming up!!
by bauermech
Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:00 am
Unfortunately I'm in Ohio, or "I" would drive to see you. I'm going to try calling HiTec tomorrow and see what they say. If they think it's bad I SURE hope they'd be willing to do a swap, and send me an RTW unit! My fingers would not look forward to doing another one any time soon.
Oh, you're the "Canton Guest". I'm fresh out of ideas personally. Unless gsferrari can think of something. It looks like you've covered all the bases.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to put it back together again either.
Hope they can get you up and running soon. I can smell quite possibly the first "Robo-One Ohio" tournament right around the corner.
Well, before you do anything like drive somewhere (have you seen the gas prices?), I'd surely like to know what Hitec has to say.
Oh wait, here's a thread of possibility... I just noticed - looking at the pics you posted, it looks like your charger is plugged into the wall. Is the other end running to the 3024? You're only using it for charging right? Not operating? I know that can do some bad stuff to the board. ...just a thought.
by Guest
Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:14 am
gsferrari wrote:This looks like a servo cabling error. It is highly unlikely that there could be such a catastrophic error in the controller hardware. Servo ZERO positions are programmed into a "firmware" type memory. Even if you erase the controller memory - the zeroing information stays. You only clear the NVRAM that contained the program files.
Open up the back and shoot some pictures. Compare your servo connections with these images:
Ok, as far as I can tell I'm hooked up just like yours, although the bottom pinouts are a tad hard to make out. Anyhow, here are some shots of mine.
Hopefully you can make it out. Pinouts 5,9,10,11,15,16,17, and 23 are unused.
I've got an electric screwdriver somewhere, I was concerned about stripping out screws/servo cases. Either way the B&D unit looks a lot better than the one I've got.
by yag-freak
Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:51 am
Hello
Has anyone thought about the two versions of controller-boards.
Version a and b are different in the position of some servos, mostly the arms I think.
And perhaps the board is labeled wrong.
But that would not explain the problems with the legs.
Have you also checked the plugs of the servos? Signalcable has to go towards the CPU on the board and the plug has a bit of extra material near the signalcable.
Get the german version of the manual from robonova.de and look on page 31. There are the two versions of the board explained.
I will try to post the images here, not sure if I can manage it.
Version a:
Version b:
Translations:
linkes/linker = left
rechtes/rechter =right
Unterarm = forearm
Oberarm = upper arm
Schulter = shoulder
Hüfte = hip
oberes Knie = upper knee
unteres Knie = lower knee
Schienbein = shin
Fuß = foot
Steffen
Has anyone thought about the two versions of controller-boards.
Version a and b are different in the position of some servos, mostly the arms I think.
And perhaps the board is labeled wrong.
But that would not explain the problems with the legs.
Have you also checked the plugs of the servos? Signalcable has to go towards the CPU on the board and the plug has a bit of extra material near the signalcable.
Get the german version of the manual from robonova.de and look on page 31. There are the two versions of the board explained.
I will try to post the images here, not sure if I can manage it.
Version a:
Version b:
Translations:
linkes/linker = left
rechtes/rechter =right
Unterarm = forearm
Oberarm = upper arm
Schulter = shoulder
Hüfte = hip
oberes Knie = upper knee
unteres Knie = lower knee
Schienbein = shin
Fuß = foot
Steffen
Last edited by yag-freak on Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
by Morbeious
Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:47 am
I'm pretty sure its the orentation of the plugs, I had the same problem after building mines. When using the manaul my leg servos were not plugged in the correct order. So i unplugged them all and just plugged them in serial order, once i did that RN-1 would stand up. all i know is that the manaul was not correct, or maybe i was mis-interperting the badly translated (printed) manual.
Robots Own/Operated: HeathKit Jr, OmniBot 2000, Lego MindStorms, RSV2, RoboNova-1
by Guest
Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:40 pm
The 2.5 controller modules uses the 2.3 connections. Not the 2.3b
Do you have a servo tester by any chance? Can use the test the swing of the servo's.
I had a similar issue setting my robot up and it was as someone else pointed out the pin on the metal servo wasn't inline with the servo horn and I managed to get it at a funny angle.
Do you have a servo tester by any chance? Can use the test the swing of the servo's.
I had a similar issue setting my robot up and it was as someone else pointed out the pin on the metal servo wasn't inline with the servo horn and I managed to get it at a funny angle.