Bum I have to choose now

[pepperm]

Well the time has arrived for me to buy a humanoid and I still aren't definately sure which one to get.

I like the Bioloid's extra servos and flexibility but don't like too much it's inflexibility when it comes to external connectivity and seemingly sparce support on the forums.

I like the cool looks of the Robonova and it's good support for external addons such as gyros but dislike it's inflexibility when it comes to making other model types.

The KHR-2HV has good support too, particularly with Microsoft's Robotics Studio (August CTP) so this robot is to be considered.

So which one do I order tomorrow morning?

Help

Mark

[hivemind]

I have a robonova, and i am pretty pleased with it, but of course i have many modifications to add, and i am using it primarily as a educational tool. If i were you, I think i would hold off just a little longer and wait for the Manoi, I know the feeling you have, that your excited and want one, and of course you should get one, but i think that if the Manoi comes out soon it may be the way to go...

On the other hand, if you are always waiting, you will never be ahead of the game, so it may be best to buy a different robot and mod it to be better, so i think your best choices, at present, are either robonova or khr-2hv (although i wouldnt hold my breath for the microsoft robotics studio, they are bound to screw that up).

Goodluck with your choice! and have fun

[CaptKill4Fun]

...

[pepperm]

People

Thanks for the valuable feedback, it's interesting how I can only get people to recomment the Robonova. Maybe it's because this is the Robonova forum and all the people who reply have a Robonova?

Is there anyone with a Robonova AND a Bioloid who can give me am objective assessment of the merits of the 2 bots please?

Mark

[bauermech]

I believe Pev has both. Good luck in your decision making.

[Pev]

Hello,

BauerMech is right I do have both a Robonova 1 and a Bioloid kit and I'd go with the following comments:

1. The bioloid kit is a very clever and fun robot construction set. You can build lots of different designs and go wild with your imagination (I am thinking of having a go at a tripod when I get sometime). However as you said there are some restrictions, primarily the interfacing piece. Everything is interfaced on a daisy chained TTL level half duplex serial connection so adding additional sensors, gyros etc is problematic as not only do you have the issue of the code to make the sensor work but also the hardware to create the interface. Having said that I have had a lot of fun and continue to use my Bioloid kit but primarily not for Biped stuff, more for multi-legged robots like hexapods and quadpods etc.

2. Robonova is pure biped, well engineered (although lacking in hip rotation but lots of people here are working on that). It has more standard interfaces for sensors such as AD (analog to Digital) port, PWM, serial and obviously all the servo stuff. The product is well finished and there is a wealth of hacks and add-ons for it (like BauerMech's grippers which are awesome).

Software wise the bioloid has a more graphical programming interface which is great for someone new to programming but can be a bit of a pain if you are used to banging out code in something like VB or C. It also breaks movement programming into one area (the motion editor) and and sensor/logic programming into a seperate piece (the Behaviour Control Program).

The RN 1 has 3 programming interfaces but I must confess I have only used the RoboBasic one and this does allow for what I call programming (more akin to VB etc) and also handles all the catch and play stuff for motion capture.

All this said my humble opinion is if you want a Biped go for the RoboNova 1, if you want a robot experimentation kit go for the Bioloid.

I am glad I have both as RoboNova is my biped and the Bioloid kit is my experimentation platform for just about everything other than Biped. As an example I did build the Bioloid Humanoid but quickly rebuilt it as 2 varieties of Hexapod, a basic robotic arm and as I mentioned am now considering a tripod design.

It is, obviously, a very personal choice and all I can say is that these are the conclusions I have come to owning both.

Hope this helps,

Pev

[CaptKill4Fun]

...

[Pev]

Okay just to confuse the debate even further I have just downloaded the latest software CD offereing from Robotis (it's linked to in a post on the Bioloid forum/August 05 thread I think).

They have greatly increased the amount of motions in the humanoid demo and also include a video of it going through its paces. It does look impressive (I may even rebuild my kit into the Humanoid again). Well worth checking out, the listed motions are:

Motion file name: DemoExample(Humanoid).mtn

* Motion data contents
[No.] [Page name] [Comment]
1 Init Ready pose
2 InitSlow Ready pose(more slowly)

10 SitdownUp Sit down and stand up
11 GetupBackView Get up from back view
12 LieBackView Lie down as back is seen
13 GetupFrontView Get up from front view
14 LieFrontView Lie down as front is seen
15 SitDown Sit down
16 StandUp Stand up

20 ClapReady Ready pose for clapping
21 Clap Clapping
22 ClapEnd Return pose from clapping
23 Bow Bow
24 Hello Hello
25 LookAround Look around
26 Wow Wow!
27 Pump Dance pose
28 Wave Dance pose(Continue to WaveCon0)
29 WaveCon0 Dance pose(Continue to WaveCon1)
30 WaveCon1 Dance pose
31 Shake Dance pose
32 ShortKnee Dance pose
33 Swing1 Dance pose
34 Swing2 Dance pose
35 Arirang Dance pose
36 DancingEnd Dance pose

40 AttackReady Ready pose for attacking
41 AttackFront Attacking front
42 AttackRight Attacking right side
43 AttackLeft Attacking left side
44 AttackEnd Return pose from attacking

60~68 Forward walk Forward walking
69~77 Backward walk Backward walking
78~86 Standstill Standstill walking
87~95 Turn right Turn right
96~104 Turn left Turn left

And it uses the sensor module to activate a number of them too.

Sorry this probably confuses things but I will try to get my humanoid rebuilt and post some thoughts

Pev

[bauermech]

I've looked at the OmniZero.2 ... it's awesome ... but I can't seem to find a place to buy one ... the stability and agility of that bot far out performs the HiTecRCD RoboNova-1 AND Kondo KHR-1 or KHR-2 ... 'course it probably commmands a premium price too since it seems a bit more advanced ...

Robots like OmniZero.2, Dynamizer, Black Seed, etc. are custom designed Japanese robots. They are not for sale because they made them themselves from the ground up. http://www.robots-dreams.com has some insight on the creators of many of these robots, but as for buying one...

Hivemind's right... MANIO's gonna' be awesome.

Many of the bots use identical servos and/or microcontroller boards as many of us on the forum use. MANIO, for instance, uses the RCB-3... nearly the same as the RCB-3J that the KHR-2HV uses.

[beermat]

pepperm, one thing to consider in your decision making: the community help available, which is not to be downplayed. Because the marketplace so far for the KHR family, Robonova, Bioloid, etc. is so small, and there are many different aspects to these robots - software, hardware, motion - that you can play with, if you're not an expert on these things, then it can be frustrating if you cannot get the help you need; having the 'best' robot but the least help available online might not be a good combination. Having a good community to ask questions of, bounce ideas off, look to for inspiration, download the code for cool moves, etc. can help make or break whether your new, expensive, robot becomes a paperweight after a few weeks or not, IMHO.

So, take a browse around each robots forum and see what people are talking about, sharing with each other, what help they give to noobs, etc. I did that before I made the plunge a few weeks ago, and I found the Robonova forum had a good collection of knowledgeable, friendly people who were willing to take the time to post and share ideas, how-to guides, links to parts, etc., and to a nub like me that was a big plus for the Robonova, and I went down that path and have not been disappointed.

Hope that helps!

[Pev]

pepperm, one thing to consider in your decision making: the community help available, which is not to be downplayed. Because the marketplace so far for the KHR family, Robonova, Bioloid, etc. is so small, and there are many different aspects to these robots - software, hardware, motion - that you can play with, if you're not an expert on these things, then it can be frustrating if you cannot get the help you need; having the 'best' robot but the least help available online might

You just have to agree with that - I think we all owe a lot to the knowledge shared on the forums and the Robonova forum (am not a KHR-1 person) is exceptional with regard to the amount of content and the knowledge shared.

Pev