Ton 'O' Questions
Ton 'O' Questions
by coldguy
Mon May 22, 2006 7:17 am
I'm glad there's a Bioloid board where I can ask for more info from people who have hands-on experience with it. I've wanted an RN-1 since I saw it on the cover of Robot magazine, but I waited. The videos from Bauermech made me almost buy one, until I saw the Bioloid. Now I'll wait until maybe some more companies get their kits to market, and do some more research. Speaking of...
1. The servos are connected and communicate serially. Is there a software or hardware limit to how many servos the CM-5 can drive? Is there a practical limit? ie: the system seems taxed/bogged down with more than this many servos attached and moving at once.
2. The CM-5 is based on the Atmel ATMega128 microcontroller, the same as the RN-1, but the RN-1 has many I/O ports available for adding sensors, in addition to the 24 servo ports. The CM-5 seems to only have a serial communication bus. Would it be possible to utilize io ports from inside the CM-5 case, or will we have to make/wait for TTL serial sensor modules?
3. The specs for the AX-12 servos show that they have more torque and speed than the Hitec servos on the RN-1, but they have plastic gears compared to Karbonite in Hitec's. Has anyone experienced servo failure like Bauermech has had with his RN-1? Also, can they really move as fast as the Hitec servos? Bauermech's Martial Arts demo has some very snappy fast action!
4. If anyone has first-hand experience with the Bioloid Humanoid and any other humanoid robot, how would you compare them?
5. Is the included software worthwhile or a pain in the neck? I downloaded it, but apparently can't do anything without a CM-5 connected. Is there a script or something to simulate a connected CM-5 for eval purposes?
6. Have I irritated anyone by cramming too many inane questions into a single post? Is anyone still reading this?
I would appreciate your responses to any or all of my queries. Any general comments or thoughts on the Bioloid would also be welcomed. I can't wait until a North American distributor is available!
1. The servos are connected and communicate serially. Is there a software or hardware limit to how many servos the CM-5 can drive? Is there a practical limit? ie: the system seems taxed/bogged down with more than this many servos attached and moving at once.
2. The CM-5 is based on the Atmel ATMega128 microcontroller, the same as the RN-1, but the RN-1 has many I/O ports available for adding sensors, in addition to the 24 servo ports. The CM-5 seems to only have a serial communication bus. Would it be possible to utilize io ports from inside the CM-5 case, or will we have to make/wait for TTL serial sensor modules?
3. The specs for the AX-12 servos show that they have more torque and speed than the Hitec servos on the RN-1, but they have plastic gears compared to Karbonite in Hitec's. Has anyone experienced servo failure like Bauermech has had with his RN-1? Also, can they really move as fast as the Hitec servos? Bauermech's Martial Arts demo has some very snappy fast action!
4. If anyone has first-hand experience with the Bioloid Humanoid and any other humanoid robot, how would you compare them?
5. Is the included software worthwhile or a pain in the neck? I downloaded it, but apparently can't do anything without a CM-5 connected. Is there a script or something to simulate a connected CM-5 for eval purposes?
6. Have I irritated anyone by cramming too many inane questions into a single post? Is anyone still reading this?
I would appreciate your responses to any or all of my queries. Any general comments or thoughts on the Bioloid would also be welcomed. I can't wait until a North American distributor is available!
by inaki
Mon May 22, 2006 5:54 pm
1. The controller allows for up to 240 servos, that is to say, there are 240 different IDs. However the power supply would fall short far before you reach that limit. Apparently you can connect 21 servos without problems. I don't know what happens beyod this number.
2. The module within CM5 has no I/O port other than the serial ports (see attached pictures). So in order to add peripherals you will need to support the serial protocol, unless you canibalize the board which would not be easy as you may see by the pictures. That means that making a sensor board for these robots would require some inteligence in the sensor side (at least a small microcontoller would be required).
3. These servos can move really fast. However if you put it under heavy load they move slower. I don't know how your friend's robot moves so I cannot tell. I have a KHR1 and this one moves as fast if not faster than it.
4. I did not make the human Bioloid so I won't comment on this. People here is complaining about some glitches in the motion of certain servos. It seems it is a failure on the control software. We are waiting for an update some time in the next days.
5. The software is good but has a lot of bugs. Fortunately the people at Robotis seems responsive so they are working on the bugs right now.
AFAIK there is no evaluation or demo software to test the abilities of this kit.
The pictures. Note the nice Zigbee Wireless socket (although empty
):
2. The module within CM5 has no I/O port other than the serial ports (see attached pictures). So in order to add peripherals you will need to support the serial protocol, unless you canibalize the board which would not be easy as you may see by the pictures. That means that making a sensor board for these robots would require some inteligence in the sensor side (at least a small microcontoller would be required).
3. These servos can move really fast. However if you put it under heavy load they move slower. I don't know how your friend's robot moves so I cannot tell. I have a KHR1 and this one moves as fast if not faster than it.
4. I did not make the human Bioloid so I won't comment on this. People here is complaining about some glitches in the motion of certain servos. It seems it is a failure on the control software. We are waiting for an update some time in the next days.
5. The software is good but has a lot of bugs. Fortunately the people at Robotis seems responsive so they are working on the bugs right now.
AFAIK there is no evaluation or demo software to test the abilities of this kit.
The pictures. Note the nice Zigbee Wireless socket (although empty
):
Last edited by inaki on Mon May 22, 2006 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
by stevo3d
Mon May 22, 2006 8:23 pm
Hi Coldguy,
Inaki's covered most everything. I have a couple of things to add:
1. The practical limits I have been told are 30 AX-12 servos and 10 AX-S1 sensor modules. Personally I've used 22 AX-12s with 4 AX-S1s with no discernable power problems.
6. No problem!
Despite the current problems, limitations, and glitches, I love the kit and recommend it! I too couldn't wait for a North American distributor. I bought from Tribotix in Australia. Great experience and support, shipping was just over $100 to Alaska. Disclaimers: Not affiliated with them in any way. Apologies to Robosavvy if this steps on any toes. Assume Robosavvy is not interested in the North American market.
Inaki's covered most everything. I have a couple of things to add:
1. The practical limits I have been told are 30 AX-12 servos and 10 AX-S1 sensor modules. Personally I've used 22 AX-12s with 4 AX-S1s with no discernable power problems.
6. No problem!
Despite the current problems, limitations, and glitches, I love the kit and recommend it! I too couldn't wait for a North American distributor. I bought from Tribotix in Australia. Great experience and support, shipping was just over $100 to Alaska. Disclaimers: Not affiliated with them in any way. Apologies to Robosavvy if this steps on any toes. Assume Robosavvy is not interested in the North American market.
Steve Munk
by barbar
Tue May 23, 2006 2:22 am
Hi,
1. Coldguy: As your questions are answered, I just wanted to say that I also love and recommend the kit despite the problems.
2. Stevo3d: What must I do for you in order to letting you show us pictures (or at least one) of your 22 DOF 4 Sensor Module Humanoid
?
This would really be great!
byebye
barbar
1. Coldguy: As your questions are answered, I just wanted to say that I also love and recommend the kit despite the problems.
2. Stevo3d: What must I do for you in order to letting you show us pictures (or at least one) of your 22 DOF 4 Sensor Module Humanoid
?
This would really be great!
byebye
barbar
by coldguy
Tue May 23, 2006 7:17 am
Thanks for the replies!
I'm sure you could add more batteries in parallel, since the 3-conductor serial network cables have Vdd, gnd, and data, similar to conventional servos. Robotis' Cycloid robots have multiple battery packs in their knees and feet. I'm more interested in how many servos/sensors can be connected before the network becomes congested and starts to lag.
Inaki, I don't really know Bauermech as a friend, I know of him because most of the Robonova-1 videos on the internet are of his RN-1. He posts alot in the Hitec/Robonova-1 forum, and is quite infamous elsewhere on the net.
I really want this kit, but I'm gonna wait until a North American version appears, so I can see if there are any improvements/differences from the original. I'm sure I'll still be able to get this version @RoboSavvy.
I'm sure you could add more batteries in parallel, since the 3-conductor serial network cables have Vdd, gnd, and data, similar to conventional servos. Robotis' Cycloid robots have multiple battery packs in their knees and feet. I'm more interested in how many servos/sensors can be connected before the network becomes congested and starts to lag.
Inaki, I don't really know Bauermech as a friend, I know of him because most of the Robonova-1 videos on the internet are of his RN-1. He posts alot in the Hitec/Robonova-1 forum, and is quite infamous elsewhere on the net.
I really want this kit, but I'm gonna wait until a North American version appears, so I can see if there are any improvements/differences from the original. I'm sure I'll still be able to get this version @RoboSavvy.
by stevo3d
Tue May 23, 2006 6:50 pm
barbar wrote:
LOL! I don't think I said I built one of those! Sadly the 22 DOF 4 Sensor Module Humanoid remains but a dream. A warped, freakish dream.
Hmm. If I were to add two AX-12s for hand grippers and one for neck rotation... What to do with the 3 extra AX-S1s?
When I first received the kit and extra dynamixels I ordered, I simply hooked all the dynamixels up at the same time loosely on the table and sent out broadcast messages to have them all move at once to verify they all work. Now that I think of it that might not have been a great test since there wasn't any load on the servos. When I'm ready to disassemble the humanoid (that may take a few weeks) I'll see if I can think up a robot that would be a decent load test of all the dynamixels I have.
2. Stevo3d: What must I do for you in order to letting you show us pictures (or at least one) of your 22 DOF 4 Sensor Module Humanoid
LOL! I don't think I said I built one of those! Sadly the 22 DOF 4 Sensor Module Humanoid remains but a dream. A warped, freakish dream.
Hmm. If I were to add two AX-12s for hand grippers and one for neck rotation... What to do with the 3 extra AX-S1s?
When I first received the kit and extra dynamixels I ordered, I simply hooked all the dynamixels up at the same time loosely on the table and sent out broadcast messages to have them all move at once to verify they all work. Now that I think of it that might not have been a great test since there wasn't any load on the servos. When I'm ready to disassemble the humanoid (that may take a few weeks) I'll see if I can think up a robot that would be a decent load test of all the dynamixels I have.
Steve Munk
