Bioloid + 1.6Ghz fit-pc2.

[PatrickS1981]

So my best move is buying the bioloid, buying the fit pc. Put everything together and start coding. Was it hard to get the servo's and sensors connected to the robot and read them in your program? What language are you using? Is it needed to build a custom case for the fit pc? Or is it better to just bui a atom board? This project will be a huge thing to do for me, because I never builded such an advanced robot

[billyzelsnack]

I'd not even bother with the onboard computer until you have a robot walking around under PC control. Jon Hylands has options there.. http://www.huvrobotics.com/shop/ and will even be coming out with a power board soon.

I do all my programming in C++, but the dynamixel SDK supports other languages too.

A regular micro-itx Atom motherboard is too large for a Bioloid to carry around. That is why I had to go with the fit-pc2. Later this year I believe a bunch of smaller form factor motherboards will hit the market. So that's another advantage to waiting on the PC. I'm personally hoping for an inexpensive dual-core ION based motherboard ( so I can do fancy GPU stuff ) for my other robots. I think it just might happen within the next 6 months too.

[PatrickS1981]

ok, i rewrote this response.
So If I understand you correct in your opinion I should first buy the bioloid with an USB board. Then when I mastered that and it works, get a pc controller for on the robot with the webcam?
Patrick

[billyzelsnack]

That sounds good. Also. There is no reason why you can't have the webcam working too. It's corded, but you'll already have a cord. I'm planning on getting my next robot up and running soon, but this one won't initially have an onboard CPU. It'll still have a case, but inside the case will be just a mounted small USB hub along with my interface and power boards. That way my robot guts will all be securely mounted and I only need a single USB cord ( that I've removed the covering to make it more flexible ) tethered to it when running off a battery.

Also. There is a high likelyhood that the robot CPU will end up running Linux so you might as well get all the Linux stuff worked out too if Linux is not what you usually develop on. I know that's been a huge issue slowing me down. Hopefully I'm past that now.

[SK]

Looks like I did not qualify for Robocup 2010.

http://www.tzi.de/humanoid/bin/view/Website/Teams2010

I should be in really good shape for next year's qualifications.

Bummer. At least you qualified for the Technical Challenges and are the runner up once any of the 24 qualified teams decides not to participate (at least from what I´m seeing).

[billyzelsnack]

The expense of going to Robocup is about the cost to build my entire team. Not properly qualifying is a real downer so I am going to concentrate on going to Robogames instead ( though I better hurry since it is so soon. ) This year was a real rush to get the qualification video ready, but next year I should be in VERY good shape.

[billyzelsnack]

JavaRN sent me a message. I asked if I could post it and the response here in the forum..

I am thinking of changing the roboard on my bioloid with a fit-pc2 (the 1.6GHz version) and wanted to ask you some questions if you don't mind:

1. I read that you cannot connect a fit-pc to a vga monitor how did you manage to install an OS? what did you do?

2. How difficult is the installation of an OS (XP/linux) for roboard it is a little tricky!

3. What about power consumption, I use 11.1v lipos 900mAH 25c, is that enough to power it for some time?

4. What about weight? Given my limited abilities in working with aluminium I would like to use the standard aluminium cover that comes with fit-pc, is it too heavy for a bioloid?

5. Does fit-pc2 have serial ports?

Since I will not be using a hard disk, what experience did you have with USB pen drive or mini sd?

Thanks alot for your time I appreciate your feedback. By the way, I don't know if you are still interested in participating in robocup, but next year robocup will be held in Turkey (2.5 hours plane away from Malta where I live), and I intend participating in it, may be we meet there!!!!

It has a HDMI out plug and one of my monitors supports that directly. When they say no VGA out they just mean that it does not have the analog signals in the connector so you could only get an HDMI to DVI adapter and not HDMI to VGA.

I use the diskless version which complicates the install a bit since there is no harddrive. Windows does not like to install in such a case, but I'm sure it is possible. The newer fit-pc2i probably can install Windows a lot easier because it has permanent flash storage onboard. Unfortunately the current batches of fit-pc2i don't have wifi or something silly like that. As for Linux. That's easy to install. My only trouble was that I was newish to Linux at the time and didn't understand a few things.

Power consumption is really low. About 0.5 amps if I remember correctly and your pack's 25C is WELL above the current draw. In my videos I was using a single 1000mah pack for servos and everything and I never came close to minimal voltage, but I don't know an actual discharge time. My new battery arrived.. a 3S 2200mah 10C pack designed for transmitters. Hopefully that'll work out nicely because it is light ( less than 120g ) and super cheap ( $16 shipped. )

I think I posted all weights for the case pieces in one of my threads. You could easily drill holes in the case to save a lot of weight. The biggest issue is going to be that the CPU comes into direct contact with the case via some weird thermal tape and I'd be worried that it could become damaged in falls. You probably could protect it though by adding a little more weight.

No serial port on the fit-pc2, but I hear that eventually the fit-pc2i will ship with it. Plenty of USB ports that can be adapted though.

I've had no issues using USB flash drives. They are actually faster than I thought they would be. Boot time is around a minute and could be much less if I knew a reasonable amount about Linux.

I'm definitely still interested in Robocup and will try for next year with much better robots. I just could not justify going this year if I was not guaranteed to compete. I have limited resources and the registration fees and trip would cost more than my 3 robots put together!

[SK]

Just to echo what billyzelsnack said, we´re running Debian on the FitPC2 without problems. I also know projects running Adeos/Xenomai and the OROCOS Realtime Toolkit for realtime control on Z530 Atoms. It´s just a very small PC, so you can run pretty much anything on it you can run on a desktop machine or notebook. The fact that the architecture and chipset are very popular on the commercial market certainly helps, which is one of the differences compared to Roboard.
The only thing a bit annoying is the non-existing RS232 on the normal FitPC2, forcing the use of USB-serial conversion.

I´d certainly like to have a chat with both of you at RoboCup in Istanbul next year (and some nice matches of robot soccer ).

[JavaRN]

If I manage to pass the "qualification video" test for robocup 2011, I will do my best to be there, and maybe do a "friendly" match with Darmstadt Dribblers. It will surely end up in 10-0 in your favour, but it will be an honour and surely we will have a chat

Are there any tiny converters for usb to rs232?

[FabinovX]

You can use USB 2 Dynamixel.

But, i saw there was a new fit-pc2i with full UART serial on their site :

http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc2/fit-pc2i-specifications/

[billyzelsnack]

What will you be plugging into the serial? You might be able to get away with using just a FTDI cable. There are a bunch of variants that bring out different signals.

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Evalua ... L-232R.htm

[JavaRN]

What will you be plugging into the serial?

The atmega128 to control robot gaits and movements, the logic of course will be left to the computing unit.

[billyzelsnack]

Maybe the audio jack version of that cable will work for you then.

[billyzelsnack]

Wait a minute.. Never mind. That cable won't work for you. If you're using the board out of the CM-5 it'll want rs232 voltages, not ttl voltages.

[JavaRN]

Do you use self-tapping screws to join the top part of the case with the lower part? Also I bought 0.6mm sheet of aluminium and it looks too flimsy for a box. Before I tried with 1.1 mm and it was really hard to work with. In this forum I read that you are using 0.03 - is that 0.03 of an inch? or 3mm?