Bioloid VS Robobuilder HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[robots199]

Hello,

I am searching for a humanoid robot with certain features:

Ability to add sensors. It HAS TO come with sensors
Ability to expand
Ability to program in C or c++

AND it will last me a long time

[Fritzoid]

I can't talk about Robobuilder because I have no experience with it but I have worked with both Robonova and Bioloid. Bioloid has everything Robonova has but better!

Some key points.

Robonova uses pulse-mode (analog) technology to drive their servos.
Bioloid uses serial logic which is much faster and more convient.

Robonova needs a connection from each servo back to the controller.
Bioloid uses daisy-chained servos dramatically reducing the number of wires. Robonova also has a tendency to burn servos due to shorts in the wiring caused by chafing.

Robonova uses heavy nickle-metal-hydride batteries to run the robot.
Bioloid Premium uses higher energy density lithium polymer batteries.

Robonova runs at around 7 volts, Bioloid runs at 11. This means more power (torque) for the servos.

Bioloid Premium has 18 DOF whereas Robonova has 16. Bioloid is also about 50% bigger that Robonova.

Both platform can be loaded with customized software (i.e. C programs).
Robotis has supported this with instructions and sample software but Hitec has left users to their own devices.

Robotis is a robotics company but Hitec caters to the RC community, robots are not their bread and butter. As a result, Robotis delivers promised products and features in a much more timely manner.

Don't let me influence you though

[UncleBob]

Robonova is old technology, slow but a lot of hacking

robobuilder I heard servos gear can break. It has sensors and program in c.

Bioloid more heavy. Don't think it can program in c yet. Maybe a bit later.

Bioloid can be modify easier and more long term I think. Robonova already a bit old so how much longer can it last?

[nicolas gomez]

I have a robobuilder, you can expand robobuilder from 16 a 20 o 23 degree of freedom change , you can change the plastic gears for Metal Gears and have more torque , each servo has an analog input and two TTL outputs,if you use the model RoboBuilder 5710K expect to be there 16 analog inputs addition to the accelerometer

Here fin more information

Servo Features:

http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/452

Holding torque: 11kgf.cm at 8.4V
No-Load Speed: 0,25 sec/60 deg at 8.4V
Operating Angle: 0~269º (Standard Resolution); 0~333º (High Resolution);
Additionally the servo can perform full rotation (360º) acting like a DC motor (with adjustable speed)
Resolution: 8 bit/1.055º (Standard Resolution); 10 bit/0.325º (High Resolution)
Position error: less than 1 degree; Average error 0.33 degree

Recommended Operating Voltage ~8.4V
3 power states: Holding Torque; Free Motion (no torque) and Dynamic Brake where the servo offers some torque but uses no power at all.
Servo Protocol Features:
Each servo is assigned its own ID is addressed through 2 byte instruction packets
8bit and 10 bit Position Read (feedback) and Position Set commands
Instructions for Reading the Analogue Port (8 bit resolution) and read/write to the DIO ports.
Instructions to adjust / tweak PID configuration
Multiple configuration options for speed, acceleration, etc. (refer to the manual for a full list)
360 deg mode: the servo can perform full rotations behaving like an intelligent DC motor with adjustable speed
Additional instructions are available to program the servo for stand alone operation (self running motions). In this operation mode the servo can be programmed to perform simple actions and react to external events (such as the DIO and Analogue ports).

PID motion control
TTL UART Serial Interface (4 800bps~921 600 bps)
Self running motion (stand alone operation)
Colour: Black
Gear Type: Gear 1 & 4 in Plastic; Gear 2 & 3 in Metal (optionally upgradable to Full Metal)
(The meaning of Gear Numbers can be consulted here) I/O ports and Assembly System:

1 Analog Input Port (servo exposes solder pads to connect any 0~5V analogue sensor)
2 DIO ports (servo exposes solder pads to connect DIO)
Joint-insert assembly for quick and easy assembly and prototyping
(you can purchase optional joint sets for fast creation of prototypes and robots)


you can update robouilder to METAL BRACKET

and metal jonits

http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/609

20 DOF HUNO & METAL BRACKET ASSEMBLY
http://robosavvy.com/RoboSavvyPages/Rob ... _20DOF.pdf


from robosavy shop

http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/445


In addition we have included the Object Detection (Distance) Sensor and Acceleration Sensor in this Robosavvy Edition further improving its performance in autonomous missions.

Smooth Learning Curve:
Starting with the easy joint-insert assembly system, you can start using the robot immediately with the pre-programmed motions.
After that, MotionBuilder can be used to create and add new moves to the robot using a simple "catch-and-play" system.

Once you're familiar with the robot, you can move on to programming Autonomous Behaviors:

ActionBuilder is a friendly graphical tool for Beginners to create simple behaviours (avoid obstacles, get up after falling, etc.).

Microsoft Robotics Development Studio: Use the included Robobuilder MSRDS Manual to learn about the robot and how to use the Visual Programming Language to have it react to Voice Commands, Control from your Keyboard or Gamepad, etc.*

Microsoft Visual Studio .Net: Choose form the MSRDS libraries or the Libraries Developed by our Community that will let you perform full interaction with the Robot, the Sensors and the Servo bus.*

C programming: sample software and libraries are available for programming the robot, including full Source Code of the Standard Firmware.

Any other languages are supported (Ruby, Python, PHP) by using the robust RBC protocol and wCK protocols to interact with the robot over the serial port or Bluetooth.*

(The options marked with '*' mean the Robot and the Computer will interact in real time; you can use the included cable or upgrade to Bluetooth for wireless communication)
Extensible to the Milimetre:
In addition to all the assembly and shape possibilities, all servos include 1 A/D port and 2 PIO ports.
Using the daisy-chain connection mechanism you can build robots with up to 253 servos!

A number of accessories are also available to customize and extend the robot such as a Hip Kit for +2DOF, a Spider Kit to build a Hexapod, Metal Brackets Kit and various Hand Grippers (by l3v3rz).

The resulting product is an affordable, easy to assemble and reliable advanced robot kit that to this day has seen an enormous success at Robosavvy and has been receiving enthusiastic community support at our forum.

The robot has also won several awards during 2008.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Documentation:

Product Brochure
Users Manual (15 Mb)

Resources for Beginner Level programming:
MotionBuilder Tutorial
Action Builder Manual
Programming with Microsoft Robotics Development Studio
Resources for Intermediate-to-Advanced Programming:

.Net Libraries Developed by the Robosavvy Community by l3v3rz
Programming in C
C Source code for the Standard Firmware
Programming in Ruby by widesoft
Full RBC Protocol Specification (Controller Box / Sensors)
Full wCK Protocol Specification (Servos)

Kit contents:

1x RBC-NNN Intelligent Controller Box

12x wCK-1108 Smart Actuator Module:
PID Motion Control
Torque: 8 kgf.cm
1x Generic A/D port + 2x Generic PIO ports for expansibility
Main Output Gear in Metal for Added Strength and Reliability
4x wCK-1111 Smart Actuator Module:
PID Motion Control
Torque: 11 kgf.cm
1x Generic A/D port + 2x Generic PIO ports for expansibility
Main Output Gear in Metal for Added Strength and Reliability
1x Sharp Infrared Distance Sensor (inside the Robot Head)*
1x Acceleration Sensor (inside the Controller Box)*
1x Sound Sensor (inside the Controller Box)
1x Remote Controller

11x Misc. Body parts (7 types)
39x Plastic Joint parts (12 types)
1 set of Nuts & Bolts
20x wCK Module Cable
1x 220V Power Supply
1x User Guide Book
1x Software CD
1x RS-232 cable for PC communication
Prepared to Upgrade with Bluetooth for Wireless communication with the PC and other devices.

* These are part of the Robosavvy Special Edition Campaign; they are not included with the Standard 5710K robots.


Please follow this link for an extended introduction and in-depth hardware and feature overview.

[Fritzoid]

Just look at the post counts on the RoboSavvy forums to get an idea how popular and indirectly how useful each robot is.

Also notice how the Robonova post have fallen off in recent months while the Bioloid posts are going strong.

[robots199]

I can't talk about Robobuilder because I have no experience with it but I have worked with both Robonova and Bioloid. Bioloid has everything Robonova has but better!

Some key points.

Robonova uses pulse-mode (analog) technology to drive their servos.
Bioloid uses serial logic which is much faster and more convient.

Robonova needs a connection from each servo back to the controller.
Bioloid uses daisy-chained servos dramatically reducing the number of wires. Robonova also has a tendency to burn servos due to shorts in the wiring caused by chafing.

Robonova uses heavy nickle-metal-hydride batteries to run the robot.
Bioloid Premium uses higher energy density lithium polymer batteries.

Robonova runs at around 7 volts, Bioloid runs at 11. This means more power (torque) for the servos.

Bioloid Premium has 18 DOF whereas Robonova has 16. Bioloid is also about 50% bigger that Robonova.

Both platform can be loaded with customized software (i.e. C programs).
Robotis has supported this with instructions and sample software but Hitec has left users to their own devices.

Robotis is a robotics company but Hitec caters to the RC community, robots are not their bread and butter. As a result, Robotis delivers promised products and features in a much more timely manner.

Don't let me influence you though

thanks!

[i-Bot]

I have a Robonova, Robobuilder and a Bioloid. I can honestly say they are all great robots. Friends have Kondo and Manoi, they are great too !
To ask to choose between is like asking a parent which is their favorite child. None of my robots has limitations which I cannot overcome and they are bounded by my skills not theirs.

The Robonova now has limited support from Hitec, but the RC heritage gives it that RC build quality and feel. Very good Gyro integration, and still kicking arse in competition.

Robobuilder is a bit lighter, supplied software not so good, but best support for C programming. Good looking robot especially with metal add ons.

Bioloid has best support from Robotis and from users. Technically probably most advanced, but rather dull movement and appearance compared to the others.

[robots199]

I have a Robonova, Robobuilder and a Bioloid. I can honestly say they are all great robots. Friends have Kondo and Manoi, they are great too !
To ask to choose between is like asking a parent which is their favorite child. None of my robots has limitations which I cannot overcome and they are bounded by my skills not theirs.

The Robonova now has limited support from Hitec, but the RC heritage gives it that RC build quality and feel. Very good Gyro integration, and still kicking arse in competition.

Robobuilder is a bit lighter, supplied software not so good, but best support for C programming. Good looking robot especially with metal add ons.

Bioloid has best support from Robotis and from users. Technically probably most advanced, but rather dull movement and appearance compared to the others.

By dull are your refering to the bioloid comprehensive?

The new one is way better.

Also, how much does robobuilder cost with all the "add-ons" like hip pivot?

[i-Bot]

I have a comprehensive with additional servos and other custom parts, though I have spent quite a lot of time looking at and trying the premium. The premium is better, though I still feel it betrays its construction set roots.

The premium and the Bioloid in general seems optimised for static stability and is very tolerant of different floor types. This makes it less challenging in creation of moves than the Robobuilder ( you have to decide if that is good or bad). Maybe with the new Gyro we will see some more adventurous gaits and even diffferent joint configurations. That is what would persuade me to upgrade to new controller/gyro.

Do take time to view some video of the different bots, it is not all in the technical specification. Dancing is not a good demo, check out the walking, balancing and fighting ( you may not want to fight, but good indication of stability).

With all the bolt ons the Robobuilder probably costs as much as the Bioloid.

[UncleBob]

Things I like about my bioloid.
It is very expandable. It has 18 servos. I would have upgrade to 18 if I had bought anyother robots. So no need to keep spending. Servos are top of the line I think. I have got more sensors than I can play with which means I am open to try a lot of things eg with the gyro. It comes with everything I need and more like zigbee which would have cost something extra from others.

Things I don't like
it's very heavy so hard to make one leg stand. One hand stand etc. Luckily I can turn it into a type b 16 servos one later to try it out. It is not met but I think the plastic looks very hard. Might not be a fighting machine but I guess this is overcomable if necessary.