bioloid Pros please or Manio ??

[rep001]

i cannot make out how many people have a bioloid here so i open this question.
What does it offer me over my RN in terms of movement and ability.Should i grab one anyway or would the Manio be a wiser choice ?? any serious advice please.

[limor]

Here are the main differences other then the obvious weight and torque:

Kondo and Hitec robotic servo communication is via old style PWM. But you can program some parameters:
* pulse stretch (stiffness of servo)
* speed (maximum speed of servo)
* punch (initial acceleration response)
* dead band (neutral zone dead band)
* damping (to control overshoot and settling time)
* protection timer (time to disable servo after current or position error)
* range Limits (to reduce maximum travel of servo)
* servo reversing
- Kondo KHR-2HB and (i think) Manoi allow for these parameter to be configured by the controler board.
- Position feedback is given via a PWM signal.

Robotis:
* Servos offer some 50 parameters including the full compliance control curve. Servo position feedback, current consumption, temperature and speed are some of the parameters that are sensed by the servo and retrievable via the serial bus protocol.
* 1mbps serial communication bus. You can interrogate 20 servos on this bus for all these parameters over 200 times per second.
* Open architecture. You are encouraged to replace the firmware with your WinAVR GCC code for Atmega128. And currently there's an open architecture board by forum member pepperm that is being coded and will allow any sensor to be attached to the Bioloid bus.


imho if you are a programmer or have some formal background in control and robotics, you will definitely enjoy the Bioloid.

[rep001]

Hi Limor
thanks for the reply.I had no idea really that the Bio was nearly that capable i shall study further , you offer no feed back for the Manio.is it not as good as they say, are you finding it fairly easy to get to grips with.Any thoughts on him as a future project i understand there is no stock yet but would love to hear your feedback anyway.
thanks.

[limor]

Check out the Bioloid Introduction page and PDF manuals on the Main-Menu tree on the left.

I haven't had the pleasure of handling a Manoi but from Lem's articles (robots-dreams.com) it seems like a very well designed kit. The servos are the ICS4014 (if i recall correctly) with higher torque than the KHR-2HV. The videos certainly make him look like he has the smoothest walk.

Here's a scoop.. RoboSavvy will start selling Manoi very soon. However, Kyosho wants the first international customers to be "researchers" ie: customers should be able to show an association with a research institute or school. I guess Kyoso assumes that this will reduce the support requirements for the relatively small international community of potential customers.

[Ray]

Hi limor,

up to now the most concerned to me is that any gyro designed to Bioloid yet?, or any Analog input is possible for quick reading of a gyro's value?

Regards.

ray

[tempusmaster]

Here are the main differences other then the obvious weight and torque:

Very good comparison. They are two very different 'animals' and the choice really depends on what you want to accomplish.

- Kondo KHR-2HB and (i think) Manoi allow for these parameter to be configured by the controler board.

The KHR-2HV uses the RCB-3J controller while the MANOI AT01 uses the RCB-3. The controller provides for adjustment and scaling of the parameters without having to purchase additional software like we had to for the KHR-1.

[tempusmaster]

The servos are the ICS4014 (if i recall correctly) with higher torque than the KHR-2HV.

The MANOI AT01 uses KRS-4024S HV servos which are rated at roughly the same torque as the KHR-2HV. I put together an interesting comparison chart contrasting the AT01, KHR-2HV, KHR-1, and Robonova-1 for the article in the Winter issue of Robot Magazine.

One design aspect that I really like is that the 4024, 4014, and 4013 servos all have the same dimensions and electrical interface, which means that if you're willing to spend the money, the torque can go from 10 to 20 to 40 without any frame or mounting mods.

The videos certainly make him look like he has the smoothest walk.

He does, at least for now.

Part of it comes from the overall mechanical design. Another significant factor is the servos and improved resolution. There are practical limitations, of course, but theoretically the RCB-3/servo combination yields much higher (up to 10:1) positional control over the 1st generation robots like the KHR-1 and Robonova.

It probably isn't obvious in the videos because I like to add background music, but the AT01 in operation sounds like a sewing machine instead of a Model T.

By the way, the KHR-2HV is capable of really smooth walking also. Some of the KHR-2HV based competitors at ROBO-ONE 10 last month were able to get very realistic walking performance from the platform.